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CVT Temperature

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41K views 88 replies 16 participants last post by  pboglio  
J
#1 ·
Hi Folks! Newbie here but looking time lurker.
It's the wife's 2014 SV AWD with CVT. Got the car a couple of years ago. It had 23k miles. Now it has 51K.

Did oil change and CVT fluid change today. That drain was taking forever. I got a little over 5 quarts out. Put the same amount back in. Warmed it up and shifted the car between R, N and D. The level is somewhere in the between the two notches.
All seemed normal so i took it on a test drive. Drove it in NORMAL and SPORT modes. It shifted normally. All is well.
But....i used CVTz50 for the first time. The CVT temp was running high, the highest was 207°F. The drive was a little over 10 miles. Got home, kept it running to check level. Temp slowly went down. All is good but should i be worried about the temp? Thanks in advance for your feedback.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Welcome! I have done pretty extensive CVT monitoring through the app, under many conditions and states of modification.

207*F is roughly 97.2*C. The FSM states that top-range safe operating temp is around 90*C (194*F). You're not far from that.

However, and somewhat anecdotally, I could not keep my Juke under 90*C regularly almost ever. Even when it was cool. After my tune I saw temps of 110-115*C after mildly spirited driving. So, I turned to a cooler. I used a Derale stacked plate (10) and mounted it to the radiator. Cost about $100 for the part and I'd imagine an hour of shop labor to install if not DIY. After doing this I saw reliable temperature drops of up to 50*F (sorry for the conversion gore). After 45min or so in the heat, it will eventually soak and temps will creep up near 90*C again, but usually 79-84*C, so the creep only affects me maybe 2% of the time. If I did it again, I would've gone the larger 16 plate model but I don't regret keeping the one I have.

Link for DIY (applies to your year model):

https://youtu.be/RPDW9vmWDKo

Hope that helps!

EDIT- Mac makes a good point about geography, and certainly even elevation. Amarillo gets both extremes. 110*+ summers, and down to 0-signle digits in the winters.Your results may vary, plus you're an AWD and I'm not.
 
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J
#5 ·
JuklearWinter said:
Welcome! I have done pretty extensive CVT monitoring through the app, under many conditions and states of modification.

207*F is roughly 97.2*C. The FSM states that top-range safe operating temp is around 90*C (194*F). You're not far from that.

However, and somewhat anecdotally, I could not keep my Juke under 90*C regularly almost ever. Even when it was cool. After my tune I saw temps of 110-115*C after mildly spirited driving. So, I turned to a cooler. I used a Derale stacked plate (10) and mounted it to the radiator. Cost about $100 for the part and I'd imagine an hour of shop labor to install if not DIY. After doing this I saw reliable temperature drops of up to 50*F (sorry for the conversion gore). After 45min or so in the heat, it will eventually soak and temps will creep up near 90*C again, but usually 79-84*C, so the creep only affects me maybe 2% of the time. If I did it again, I would've gone the larger 16 plate model but I don't regret keeping the one I have.
Click to expand...
THIS is the post that started my quest for a cooler on my 2011. CVT temps always above 100c and up to 115, even more.

Now I have the 4 outlet bee hive and a big Hayden 677 cooler. It didnt help. Thought it was the outlets facing down so today we flipped it and even replaced the filter. STILL running hot 100+ (reached 109 today with somewhat spirited highway driving, 103 around town) even around town in 70 degree temps today, and very slow to drop. With a big cooler the CVT should cool right down when letting off or coasting. Not mine. The cooler does get hot, so its flowing, but obviously there must not be enough cvt fluid moving through it... I wonder if lack of o-ring on the beehive supply port is a problem? (some fluid leaking back to the return rather than through the beehive)

Meanwhile Juklear has huge temp drop and cant get above 90, while I cant get below 100! Is it his gen 2 square beehive? His cooler is different? What could it be?
 
#3 ·
Thats why the Euro Jukes and Nissan Rogues come with coolers. North American Jukes got ripped off.

I think the fluid level needs to be near to top too. Not that it will help the temps much. Jukes were all over the place as far as how they were filled from the factory.

Where you live has a lot to do with Temps. Texas vs Vermont.......
 
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J
#4 ·
Thanks for the replies. I noticed the sticky regarding the monitoring and read it. Good to know that what I'm seeing is not far from what others are seeing. Like someone said, it's probably been running like that and i just didn't know it until i got the app.
By the way, that drain plug was on there pretty tight and it didn't have a crush washer.
Something else I'm experiencing about the Juke. There is a deep or low rattle that seems to be coming from the rear end but I could be wrong. It only happens at a red light. Even when i put it in PARK although it's not as bad. It does not happen all the time and i think it goes away after the it has warmed up really good. I need to pay attention next time i drive it.
 
#6 ·
I'm a fraud! Sorry to hear this is still a challenge on your part. I haven't driven my car in so long I feel very disconnected from Jukeland right now.

It always kinna seened to me like the square beehive is essentially a factory-provided version of what you'd purchase aftermarket for the V1.

@FastReligion whatcha got on this, seeing as you've done coolers and DIY videos on both?
 
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#8 ·
I would think about the best cooler possible too.

Remember the cvt cooler is fighting the engine oil and coolant temps. Well actually its fighting the whole system and doing the inverse too. Raising the system temps.
 
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J
#9 ·
well today, I checked after a highway ride in 85 degree outside temps. CVT was 130c (thats 265f!)

the cooler out front is apparently not much help. It is exactly as the other coolers I found in here that supposedly keep the cvt cool.

Im out of ideas. may as well remove it and just plug the extra cooling lines on the aftermarket beehive.

I did consider trying one of those adapter plates that divert all the fluid not just some to the cooler out front. but I'd like to see some examples that show proof they work.

:mad::mad:
 
#10 ·
Well did you change your CVT fluid?

What is your Jukes coolant/engine temp?

What cooler did you use ?
 
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#12 ·
Did you add fluid to fill the cooler as well? When adding a cooler, you add total fluid capacity to the system. If you do not increase the total amount of fluid to account for the cooler and associated lines, the amount of fluid in the pan will be too low.
 
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#16 ·
Well what is the temp of the Cooler after a hot drive?

Have you changed your fluid ? Old fluid will cause very high temps.
 
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J
#18 ·
I have not changed the fluid, didnt think that older fluid could create high temps. It does have some new fluid mixed in from the cooler install, and from what I understand, you cant get all the fluid out anyway so you cant really 'change" the fluid, just dilute it with new, right?


Jaxxa, here is the continuous duty Tilton pump, but it "only" moves 1-2 gallons per minute which sounds kinda low to me. What do u think? A couple hose barbs on the pan and a switch/relat maybe a thermostat switch and IF it moves enough oil and IF the cooler is big enough (mine is pretty big I think), I dont see how it could NOT work...

Tilton Transmission and/or Differential Oil Cooler Pumps 40-527
 
F
#20 ·
I have built "oversized" CVT Pans that have added 4 quarts of extra fluid, along with a rear mounted pump and 12"x18" CVT cooler with a fan (On Insane Juke). It did not reduce high speed CVT temps enough to prevent limp mode after hard pulls at 267hp on a big turbo.

At a certain point the internals wear out and cause the cvt to over-heat no matter the size cooler. IF you run too large a cooler and your CVT is healthy, you can actually over-cool the CVT fluid and cause the car to think the CVT is not warmed up yet which will change how the CVT acts.

A CVT cooler is just a way to slow the progression of the CVT deterioration, it will not prevent it outright. For example, my friend Angela started having CVT limp mode after 1-1:30 hours of driving, so she came to me and I installed a cooler, told her it was band-aide to buy her more time. 3-4 months later in the dead of winter she calls me and says its doing it again. We replace the CVT, keep the cooler on there, and for the past 3 years has not had a problem.

On my first Juke 5-6 years ago, I put a MASSIVE CVT cooler on it to do some testing when the CVT had 80k miles on it. It started acting funny. CVT levels where okay, but i logged the CVT temps via consult and saw that the CVT fluid temp was getting just a hair over ambient air temp when on the highway, it was cooling too much. Removed the large cooler and installed the one I currently sell, and never had an issue, I sold that car at 130k miles with full bolts ons and daily beatings.

Juke CVTs all fail. It is not a matter of IF it is a matter of when. Some fail spectacularly, like the one on my Nismo that Just got stuck in a high gear ratio, some slowly die by wearing of the internals to where friction heat just happens. I tell everyone who is looking to buy one of these cars this: Put aside $100 a month til you have $3000 saved up, then WHEN the CVT dies, your ready to toss a new one in.
 
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J
#21 ·
Fastreligion thats great great info. Couple thoughts and questions as I read that.

First, your "too big" cvt cooler could have has a bypass and thermostat valve (they are common) and it would only send coolant to the big cooler when needed (at 180f or whatever the thermostat is set for).

How did you feed the cooler on the Juke you sold at 130k, with the four-barb beehive?

Do you think my juke temps are resulting from older fluid? Or is normal wear showing in higher temps? 2011, has about 150k mostly easy miles on it.

What did you use for the pump on the insane Juke?
 
F
#22 ·
I was trying to make a product to sell, and thermostatic by-passes ad a LOT to the cost of the system and complexity. Not everyone knows how to tell of one is working right or not. So It had to be simple. You also have to deal with air at that point too. When you shut off a CVT the fluid will drain out the hoses and back into the CVT if the cooler is mounted above the adapter. This is fine when you just start the car back up, as the CVT self bleeds in a few seconds, and your not driving at that point. Now, if your driving the car and the thermostat opens to allow CVT fluid into the cooler, the CVT now has to burp that air in the cooler while it is already moving, which could cause aeration to occur in the fluid, making it more likely the CVT pickup will get bubbles in it and cause issues. Also: Shocking the CVT with ambient air temp fluid on the initial opening of that thermostat is bad too, the internal temp sensor for the CVT could see a dramatic drop in CVT fluid for a second and trip a code or limp mode, thinking something is wrong. You want it all to heat up and level off organically. There is a reason almost no affordable OEM's use thermostatic systems in regards to oil or hydraulics, too many potential issues. You jsut have to size the cooler to maintain a set temp in set circumstances.

At 150miles on the oem cvt, that CVT is just about done. Your lucky it has lasted that long. Highway driving is what kills a CVT. its a long duration of continued torque. Thats why most people get CVT limp mode on the highway, and not some back road. The CVT makes the most heat on the highway.

On the Insane juke I ran a self-priming pump designed for oil with a thermostatic switch with two lines directly into the modified CVT pan. IT was both overkill, and never did what it was meant to do as mentioned above. Your adding a lot of complications with a system like that.

All my jukes, my current one included, just use the OEM 4 barb beehive system. Ive sold hundreds of them, installed dozens of them, and never had any issues.
 
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J
#62 ·
here's fast religeon's comments. I am not convinced about some of it, in other words I think I could implemenet a cvt pump and cooler and not have the issues he says it might have. could use a manual switch, bleed in the thermostat, etc. only thing stopping me is the money and the miles on our juke. but, the cvt asof now is working perfectly fine at 150k, despite the doomsayers ! and, maybe add a cooler pump just for the learning.
 
J
#23 ·
all very interesting. still dont know why my CVT is running so warm tho. Looks like from reading all this, boils down to wear, old fluid.

btw this all started when it surprised me with limp mode last July after towing a boat for 100 miles all highway, and then I researched it. after that the amazon beehive and cooler went in with the Hayden 677 cooler and I think 1/4" lines. The other day it was kinda warm so i said "let me check the CVT", plugged in the OBDII and was shocked to see 130c temps. The question really is "why", wear, or could simply old fluid do it?

amazon.com/gp/product/B07DS7QBWR

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C3F3SO
 
F
#24 ·
old fluid heats up faster and loses its viscosity faster, and at that many mileage, wear is causing it too.
That cooler is WAY too big, on a fresh CVT that will potentially cause CVT temp issues.
 
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J
#25 ·
FastReligion said:
That cooler is WAY too big, on a fresh CVT that will potentially cause CVT temp issues.
Click to expand...
I assume you mean it would keep a fresh CVT too cool? I been working on cars and modding for decades. But it stumps me how a too big cooler could allow 130c CVT temp on a normal (ok I drive slightly spirited) highway drive.

Wish Nissan had done CVT RIGHT to begin with...
 
F
#26 ·
it comes down to the flow rate, the fluid flows fairly slow, and cooler like that can cause it to flow even slower, which means more time to cool off, which is the point. Thats why i run tube and fin, it does not obstruct flow at all, so the fluid can pass through like it normally would in the oem cooler available internationally. But we are stuck with what we are stuck with in regards to the CVT. With all the CVt testing ive done i have found age means heat, old fluid means heat. no cooler will fix that.
 
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F
#28 ·
I only ever install OEM reman units. They come with a built in warranty. And that one in the photo is a V2. you can tell from how the front of it looks.
 
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#30 ·
If you want to do anything. Tho it is only short term. Change your CVT fluid. Buy 6 quarts and get it changed.
 
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J
#32 ·
OK big clue today after a fairly long drive about 60 miles each way. First half CVT temps stayed at or below about 110. I checked the cooler out front and the left side was warm, most of it was cold.

On the way home, temps slowly rose to 128c. at 70+ MPH at times. Outside temps in the upper 70's

When I got home I immediately checked the cooler and it was STONE COLD, as in, no flow.

CVT was at that point, 127c. I checked the CVT dip stick (my 2011 has one) and it looks quite a bit over the hash marks, very clean almost clear fluid.

Could overfilled CVT cause the cooler to NOT get any flow?

This is VERY weird. BUT I'm determined to get to the bottom of it, with help from here of course!
 
F
#33 ·
No, most CVT's in the Juke are actually over-filled from the factory, theres dozens of posts about it. Make sure you checking the dipstick when CVT fluid temp is ~114F, otherwise it will not read exact (According to FSM) The engine must also be on when checking or you will get a false full reading. I am telling you its the CVT being bad. If the cooler is not getting any flow, you may have a kinked line, the cooler is clogged, or the filter element behind the beehive was damaged and has caused one of the two other issues. The CVT fluid that goes into the beehive has already passed through the CVT itself, so if there was NO flow, the car would not be moving.
 
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J
#34 ·
more good info. the cooler was brand new not likely clogged. I had them put in a brand new filter under the bee hive that I had sourced and fairly certain ni kinks.

as to the no flow - no moving idea, as far as I could tell looking at the beehive, the flow is shared between the beehive intercooler section, and there are open ports to the extra barbs for the front cooler. if the cooler lines were kinked, it would just behave as a stock beehive, with all flow just going through the beehive?

bottom line is somehow the cooler is NOT flowing, at least I should fix that, and soon as I find the correct procedure, change the CVT fluid.

suprised that the CVT is running too warm with NO other issues, no whining, works fine. and that really means it's bad?
 
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