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Transmission Slippage? 2012 Juke/2WD (Pure Drive); Bone Stock

13K views 77 replies 10 participants last post by  Macgyver 
#1 ·
Hello all, new member here. I searched the site for this issue but didn't really find a thread that was quite on point for what we experienced recently. We were making a roughly 350 mile trip on the interstate and we experienced pretty much a total loss of power on the freeway. Outdoor temperatures were probably in the mid-to-upper 80's; so its not like we were cruising through Death Valley. We went from 85 to 50 almost immediately and continued to slow almost to the point of getting rear ended. You could pin the accelerator pedal to the floor but all you would get is increased engine rpm and the car would continue to slow down. So we hopped off (well, limped off actually) at the nearest exit and waited for 20 minutes or so and proceeded in hopes that cooling it down would help; which it did for a while. Later we had to pull off again and wait it out a couple more times. The first interval was around 150 miles or so...second was around 80 miles. Similar threads seem to point to a TCM component that is designed to protect the transmission from overheating damage. So, I'm wondering if this was actually transmission "slippage" or the car flipping into "limp mode"; which would beg the question of why was it getting hot enough to go into protection mode? This leads me to wonder if I need to install a tranny oil cooler?

Other commentary suggests that a CVT fluid change may correct the problem...or at least what sounded like similar problems. Any chance this is related to a bit of over-due maintenance??

We purchased the car used so are not sure of its maintenance history. However, we do know that its bone stock with no tweaks to turbo boost, transmission performance, etc. Just a nice little stock Juke with about 110K miles on the clock.

As I mentioned, I did try to search for something that seemed to fit our situation but didn't come across a good match in previous threads. So, if I could ask for your input, it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!
 
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#3 ·
Hi and thanks for the fast reply! Do you think this could be the cause of the problem? One other question also just occurred to me...I saw a video by Fast Religion that said if your CVT fluid is beyond 50K miles old, not to change it at all due to creation of uneven viscosity between the old and new fluid. Any thoughts on that advice? Thanks again!


He says this at 6:45
 
#4 ·
I would do (3) drain and fill cycles in a row. Drive about 20-50 miles of light driving in between. Statistically that changes over 90% of the fluid.

Matt knows his stuff and we all look to him for our Juke issues but I don't think accepting that you have to cool the vehicle down after an hour of driving.
 
#5 ·
Yeah, he really seems to know his business. Any thoughts on that TCM module and why it would be triggering, installing a cooler and the likelihood of serious damage to the transmission? I guess in the back of my mind I'm worried that the tranny has been damaged due to untimely fluid change...my guess is that it has never been changed and the sweat on my palms that this concern causes is making a mess of this keyboard. 😉
 
#6 ·
Do several drain and fills, but remember its $20 a quart so your talking $200 each time you do the exchange. Once the CVT start overheating, adding a cooler is a bandage and eventually it will have the issue again as the CVT deteriorates. The cooler should be used to extend CVT life, not to save it completely. As I have said over and over a CVT in a nissan will eventually die, all you can do is things to prolong its life like frequent flushes and a cooler. If the cooler does not prevent overheating it is time for a new CVT.
 
#7 ·
Hey thanks for the answer and BTW - great YouTube videos.

Yeah, that stuff ain't cheap. I found it on Amazon for $89/five quarts. Still, three swaps at five quarts each, and I'm in for about $300 just to do the flush. (I'd do it myself.) So your point's well taken.

I guess all transmissions eventually fail. But, reading between the lines here, it sounds like you may be saying that since my CVT has started overheating, its already gone into a "death spiral" and its already pretty much trashed? I'm hoping not; but, if that's the case, there wouldn't be much point in spending the money on the flushes or installing a cooler at this point.

However, say that we do the fluid flush/change maintenance and perhaps add the cooler. Do you think we could reasonably expect to correct the slipping issue and get whatever normal remaining life remains for a typical CVT out of it? If that's the more likely scenario, I'm thinking it would be worth the maintenance costs and cooler investment. I know you can't put "hands on" our car but just hoping you can share a little perspective on the most likely scenario/condition.

Thanks again - I truly appreciate your insight and help!
 
#8 ·
Once the CVT starts to overheat on the highway its just a matter of time before it overheats on back roads, then overheats once its moving. Overheats is really the wrong term, as its more of a increase in friction causing insufficient cooling of the fluid as the parts age that really happens. But yes, that is a sign of the death spiral. Adding a cooler and changing fluid can buy you more time which can help saving up for a new cvt or hunting for a low mileage used one (i DO NOT recommend this option). A good example of this was my friend angela: 110k ish miles and she started getting overheating on the highway after 1-2 hours of driving. Not a big deal to her as she only did that sort of driving once ever few months. Then it turned into every 30-45 minutes. At that point we added a cvt cooler. I estimated it would buy her 5-6 months before it got bad again This was in sept-october. Sure enough, spring time came around and the car started going into limp mode on her drive home from work. half hour. Then it did it after only a few minutes on the highway. She listened to me when we installed the cooler and began putting aside money every month for a CVT, so when we bought her a new one she wasn't stressed for paying for it and the install.

We replaced the CVT, flushed then re-installed the cooler on the new CVT, put a big ol turbski on it, and 30kish miles later the car runs fine.

CVTS do not like the constant heavy load of highway driving, and they do not like the torque of moderate to severe acceleration. CVTs live longest doing 30-50 mph cruising. My first juke got to 140kish miles on the oem cvt in the houston heat without issue (i did add a cooler at 100k miles for testing), before I traded it in, but i never really took it on highway drives. The one long highway drive i did do about a month before trading it in, in the middle of summer, it went into limp mode an hour in. It was not worth buying a new CVT at that point with the other work I needed to do to make the car last another 100k miles so I got rid of it.
 
#9 ·
I believe what is happening when the CVT overheats is the pulley and belt surfaces start wearing grooves and other wear marks to the point where even with new clean CVT fluid the belt and pulley can no longer grip. I've seen a few pictures in other tear down videos and threads that show the discoloration caused by overheating and grooves developing on the pulley surface and the teeth on each element of the belt were starting to wear down. The fluid not only cools and lubricates some parts, but it's what adjusts the pulley ratios through a series of valves and solenoid, and also assists grip on the belt/pulley. In a push belt CVT, the fluid is really the workhorse.
 
#10 ·
Ohhhh-boy. I was afraid you were going to say something like this. Actually, Angela's situation sounds very much like ours. Mostly, ours is driven back and forth to work...30 minutes each way...and its no problem at all; although much of that time is on the freeway. So far, we haven't experienced issues with local driving. However, it sounds like that's just a matter of time and I might be able to buy five or six months of time before the thing finally goes critical.

This sounds like a pretty common life cycle for these transmissions. I feel confident that you were very attentive to the 30K fluid changes but even then, you still had the same problem.So, maybe lack of prior changes didn't really contribute that much to the problem and its just one of those "it is what it is" situations.

Any thoughts on "best bets" for sourcing a new CVT? If you say Nissan dealer; I think I better look for a second job! :D
 
#11 ·
Any thoughts on "best bets" for sourcing a new CVT? If you say Nissan dealer; I think I better look for a second job! :D
OEM or bust. There are no "aftermarket" refurbishing companies I would ever trust with such a sensitive component. My price for the CVT and fluids for it is like $2700-$2800. Install is a killer though. I can install one in about 4-5 hours without a lift, so my rate is cheap. $500 for a taken care of car that wont have rot or rusty bolts, $700 for one that has never really had any parts taken off it before. My nissan dealership charged $1400 in labor for a Juke AWD CVT install, which is 12ish hours of labor. Which if you do it how nissan wants you to, is about how long it will take.
 
#19 ·
i mean...i have had people travel furthur for less.. car i am building right now is from michigan, before that was new orleans. I had someone drive 6 hours one way for a downpipe install haha
 
#22 ·
No problem. Post up. Post pics. We will be here.
 
#23 · (Edited)
It sounds like you've got a good amount of replies. Instead of telling you what "will" happen, I'll give you my story. Exactly what you went thru, my car went thru at maybe 5,000-10,000 mile mark, basically brand new. Whining, highway overheating, limp mode, etc. I was almost killed multiple times in my car because of the CVT. I then refilled to EXACTLY between the dipstick fill lines "hot" and completely eliminated that problems I was having. I attributed it to a factory underfill/overfill condition which causes massive havoc on oil foaming and oil pump cavitation. This same condition can happen on higher mileage CVT due to transmission case oil leakage. I've heard the CVT oil will degrade the silicon gasketing material, I would tend to believe it. I run Loctite 518 on my CVT rebuild/upgrade, which is completely impervious to CVT fluid. External coolers help and there are many threads on that subject, but proper fluid fill is much much more critical IMHO. A correctly filled CVT oil sump level will be whisper quiet, this is so important to the oil pump function and how it supplies hydraulic fluid to the valvebody control unit that it isn't stressed enough.

Could it be a failing transmission? Absolutely. If you feel slippage and it's NOT whining, then yes the transmission is gone. It will "jerk" especially in the higher gears on the expressway if the belt is slipping. IF you feel a "hunting" rpm where the engine rpm oscillates at constant throttle during cruise, then this is a very bad sign that the oil pump relief valve is worn out and not applying correct belt clamping pressure, wearing out the CVT belt. It's super common on these CVT transmission's, which are similar to the Altima, Jeep, Mitsubishi CVT. It's basically the achilles heal of this design and almost every CVT fails from this failure mode eventually. The valvebody ratio control piston also jams up, causing similar funky ratio control issues. If you are at this point the transmission is already gone. Another bad symptom is a delayed engagement from park to drive, like 2-3 seconds or more. If you don't have these symptoms..........the CVT isn't likely to be failing. If it whines, your fluid is either worn out, or the fluid level is incorrect.

They do overheat something fierce when the clutch packs and belt are worn out but it has to be pretty far gone for that to happen. What you described is common and fixable in most cases with a correct CVT fluid fill. I highly highly recommend AMSOIL CVT fluid and a brand new sump oil filter replacement & the cartridge filter replacement, maybe even a new beehive cooler too and CVT thermostat. I'm going to say right now IF you had a slipping transmission, the AMSOIL would pretty much kill the slippage in it's tracks, and it would run cooler too. That cartridge filter being clogged will massively limit CVT oil flow thru the beehive cooler.....and then you overheat. Deal with the basics first before worrying about a CVT failure just yet.

I'd say 110,000 miles is up there for a CVT, but if it's stock and unmodified, they can go further from what I've heard and members have reported as high as 200,000 miles. Juke CVT failures do happen but most are from morons running modified engines, myself included.....lol. Again, without a full transmission teardown it's so hard to say, but what you have described is classic and many people often mistake it for a failing transmission when many times it isn't. A failing CVT is sometimes difficult to diagnose, but the symptoms I mentioned give an indication of what might be going on as they are fairly common on the JF011E transmission the pre-2015 Jukes run.

Hopefully you have some info to start trouble shooting and if you don't feel comfortable take it to a qualified Nissan dealership. Also, I'd download the CVTz50 phone app and get an OBDII bluetooth plug so you can see the CVT temps, torque converter slippage, CVT belt slippage etc. If you datalog a run I could review it and check to see what's going on.

Good luck.
 
#24 ·
I have to tell you guys, I'm amazed by the great community on this forum. Once again, thanks for all of the advice and info! So, I wanted to just kind of "point-by-point" respond to pboglio's post and to ask for a little clarification, etc.

On balance it sounds a little encouraging and I like the advice to try some of the basics first; but I don't want to go too far down that path and burn a lot of cash if its pretty certain that the tranny is wasted. Soooo, here goes:

If you feel slippage and it's NOT whining, then yes the transmission is gone. It will "jerk" especially in the higher gears on the expressway if the belt is slipping.
We're not hearing the whining at all. Which, from what you've said that may mean the tranny is done. However, we are not experiencing any of the jerking sensation -- we're only seeing the loss of power to the wheels. However, its a smooth lack of engagement - if that makes any sense. So, could that mean that what we're experiencing isn't actually a slippage and the transmission may still be recoverable?




IF you feel a "hunting" rpm where the engine rpm oscillates at constant throttle during cruise, then this is a very bad sign that the oil pump relief valve is worn out and not applying correct belt clamping pressure, wearing out the CVT belt . It's super common on these CVT transmission's, which are similar to the Altima, Jeep, Mitsubishi CVT. It's basically the achilles heal of this design and almost every CVT fails from this failure mode eventually.
We are not experiencing this hunting action at all. When the transmission operating normally (i.e., not in limp mode) the engine RPMs stay stable.

The valvebody ratio control piston also jams up, causing similar funky ratio control issues. If you are at this point the transmission is already gone.
Not sure what I’d be seeing if this were the case. Only the symptoms I described have been observed so far. How would this manifest itself? You mentioned that if this were the case, the transmission is gone; but would a valve body replacement correct things?

Another bad symptom is a delayed engagement from park to drive, like 2-3 seconds or more. If you don't have these symptoms..........the CVT isn't likely to be failing. If it whines, your fluid is either worn out, or the fluid level is incorrect.
We're not seeing any of this delayed engagement. It goes into drive normally. However, there is no whining so I'm a little uncertain on how to interpret the collective symptoms.

They do overheat something fierce when the clutch packs and belt are worn out but it has to be pretty far gone for that to happen. What you described is common and fixable in most cases with a correct CVT fluid fill. I highly highly recommend AMSOIL CVT fluid and a brand new sump oil filter replacement & the cartridge filter replacement, maybe even a new beehive cooler too and CVT thermostat
While I love the advice, my concerns are (1) is it compatible with 110K mile-old Nissan NS2? I wouldn't be able to drain the 3 quarts in the torque convertor without removing the tranny; so there would be a mixture of fluid types. (See FR’s advice on mixed viscosities etc. above.) Changing the filters and fluid would be a dream solution but I don't want to make the situation worse either.

How strongly do you feel about recommendation to change the beehive and thermostat?

Also, I'd download the CVTz50 phone app and get an OBDII bluetooth plug so you can see the CVT temps, torque converter slippage, CVT belt slippage etc. If you datalog a run I could review it and check to see what's going on.
You have a deal...do you have any recommendations on the OBDII plug? I looked on Amazon last night but it was a little confusing. It sounds like there has to be something called ELM327 compatibility but some of the better plugs on Amazon aren't real clear on whether or not they support that protocol.

Once again, many thanks guys!!!
 
#25 ·
Follow-on point on the "hunting" comment...I didnt see an edit option but wanted to clarify: We don't seem to experience this in limp mode either. The engine RPMs stay stable...any change in RPM during these episodes is strictly related to what we're doing with the accelerator pedal.
 
#26 ·
Seems odd that Nissan did not know that the CVT transmission was a pile of junk from the get go. Manufacturers test their vehicles extensively before they put them out in the market place so surely they would have known what a pile of crap this technology is, then, to add insult and additional incompetence, once in the marketplace, they insisted in foisting this horrible contraption on the unsuspecting consumer, year after year.
 
#28 ·
Shop towel,

OK, really great info there.

The smooth lack of engagement and general "weak" power can possibly be attributed to the TCM basically "opening" the torque converter and not locking it up the converter clutch packs under power. So it generally "feels" like it's slipping, which technically it is but it's fluid slippage.........and that generates tremendous heat don't you know:). Now what is causing the TCM to want to do that, can be a few things. My transmission always does it at full power off the line, and also in high-g turns with throttle at maximum. The CVTz50 datalog would show this as an rpm "slippage" of like 128 which is basically an open torque converter condition, typically seen below 30 kph speeds under normal conditions.

No rpm hunting situation is great news, means the oil pump is at least not caused enough damage for the belt to slip at part throttle, thus the hunting that occurs when the pump pressure is throttled back for efficiency.

Valve-body or ratio control failure can cause many symptoms, but weirdness in upshifting, incorrect gear ratios, etc. occurs. If it feels generally normal here, then the valve-body is probably good. The CVTz50 datalog will confirm the actual vs. commanded gear ratios, so it's easy to confirm.

No delayed engagement from park to drive is also good. There is a built-in delay to avoid shock, but excessive is a bad sign of pressure leakage feeding the forward clutch packs. This can all be checked actually by dropping the valve-body with the transmission still in the car and doing an air-check test using an air compressor and gun to each control port feeding the torque converter, clutch packs, primary pulley, & secondary pulley. It's a little more involved than dropping the CVT oil pan, but an easy 1-2 hour job on ramps for a mechanic who knows exactly what they are doing.

The CVT belt can also be checked with the valve-body dropped using a boroscopic camera, along with the pulley face condition. If those fail the visual inspection and the air-check also fails, replace the CVT as it's 100% completely dead or on it's way out. The oil pump relief valve jamming is impossible to detect without a full transmission tear down, but the symptoms will show up in the pulley wear check.

Would I immediately just drop the CVT transmission? heck no. I'd have me a looksey and confirm it's truly dead before yanking it. IF I were swapping a new CVT in, I'd immediately first pull the converter case off and rebuild the brand new oil pump and install a Sonnax oil pump relief valve that is drop-in upgrade. This would pretty much make the CVT bulletproof on a stock engine, though the valvebody can wear out prematurely too. This is kinda where the AMSOIL oil comes into play.

The Beehive is impossible to clean really, the passages are like a honeycomb. I would find a brand new Ebay 2-port stock version for the Juke and swap it without thinking twice, the OEM ones are mega expensive. Thermostat can be checked with a thermometer and hot water, I'll look up the procedure and send it to you. I can't describe how poorly the Beehive actually transfers heat to the radiator, now imagine a clogged Beehive with 100,000 miles on it. I'd just do it while the oil is completely drained from dropping the pan. The cartridge filter sits inside the Beehive, also mandatory to replace if you suspect overheating. I fixed my overheating by swapping the filter, definitely helped.

AMSOIL fluid is compatible with CVT requiring NS-1, NS-2, and NS-3. You have a Gen1 running NS-2, I've confirmed there is no issue running this fluid. Changing the fluid requires about (3) full drains, then driving between each to get them fully circulated. This'll get about 80-85% of all the fluid swapped out, most hanging out inside the torque converter and valve-body. A good time to also drop the pan and cleanout the pan magnets or just replace them, they are probably fully loaded and useless at this point, though whatever was gonna wear out already did at that point....lol. I can't describe the AMSOIL CVT improvement, on a slipping transmission, think of it like a heavy duty clutch upgrade on a manual transmission. It's like a bear-trap in terms of clamping power, it maintains a freaking death grip on the push-belt and clutches, even if they are worn to nothing. I don't believe yours is truly slipping but probably the limp mode and open converter are making it seem so, the data-logs would tell alot.

On the OBDII plug, let me find the original box and I'll post up a picture of it. Seemed to work good once you pair everything up, I do unplug it when not in use as they are known to drain the car battery, but it has some internal circuit to prevent this. I can help you out more if you get it all hooked up and do some logs and send them over.
 
#29 ·
Follow up on the viscosity topic.

There is no good reason to keep old CVT oil in the transmission. It's just plain wrong information. You can mix-in AMSOIL with Nissan NS-2 just fine, costs about $15 per quart but worth it. I was looking at some low micron filtration systems to scrub the oil on the bench so I could recycle the oil out since the stuff is so damned expensive. The idea was to swap fluids every 5k miles, recycle it on the bench using the low micron filtration system and put it back in the vehicle a few times before tossing it.

It was another thing I was looking at to extend the life of these transmissions. The pushbelt throws off so much metal debri it basically destroys the valve-body and oil pump. If you can scrub that crap out of there quick enough those components would tend to not seize up. The AMSOIL does amazingly well in the FZG wear test and if someone ran that stuff in a factory new car, I don't think the CVT would fail nowhere near as often. Heat and friction kills these things every time.
 
#30 ·
And then Jaxxa does this with his CVT. LOL

 
#31 ·
Hahaha......holy freaking crap. Love it.
 
#32 ·
Yeah like wtf.

He needs a Drunkmann tune on that thing. It would be a hoot to see him roast some cars out there with those big tires.
 
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