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Timing Chain Related Problems - General Poll

  • 2011 - Original Timing Chain/Recall Performed (No problems yet)

    Votes: 69 27.8%
  • 2011 - Timing Chain Related Problem

    Votes: 40 16.1%
  • 2012 - Original Timing Chain/Recall Performed (No problems yet)

    Votes: 47 19.0%
  • 2012 - Timing Chain Related Problem

    Votes: 9 3.6%
  • 2013 - Original Timing Chain/Recall Performed(No problems yet)

    Votes: 60 24.2%
  • 2013 - Timing Chain Related Problem

    Votes: 4 1.6%
  • 2014 - Original Timing Chain/Recall Performed (No Problems)

    Votes: 8 3.2%
  • 2014 - Timing Chain Related Problems

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • 2015 - Original Timing Chain (No Problems)

    Votes: 9 3.6%
  • 2015 - Timing Chain Related Problems

    Votes: 1 0.4%
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Joseph,

First, your friend doesn't qualify for the TSB, never did after November 2012 build date.

That 0-20W spec doesn't seem right. The Gen1 ran a 5W-30 spec, Gen2 ran 0W-20. Please someone correct me with a screenshot of the Service manual cause I know what the 2012 run and it isn't 0-20W. IF it's NOT the right weight oil, then the timing chain tensioner would see lower oil pressure due to gap clearances in the mains bleeding it off.

Can't answer the plastic question. Less timing tension control means more chain whip, you are possibly looking at the effect and not the cause. I always look back at the oil, go research timing chain failures and see the common denominator.
 

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Joseph has inspired me. In this age of quarantine, I have discovered a new drinking game.

Take a drink every time you read one of the following paraphrased topics and report back in the morning with how far down the list you were able to get:

Plastic doesn't belong in an engine bay/near engine oil
Timing chain broke 4k miles/km after the warranty expired
106,850 miles/kms
$2,440 or $2,442
2014MY with a manufacture date of November 26, 2013 or November 29, 2013
ISO certification
SB-1005885-321
SB-10055923-4231

You're welcome! ?

Start here:

 

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Bargeld,

Thank you for the humor, thought I was going nuts. I don't think my liver would survive if I played that game.....lol.

Joseph,

Please read this article, it may open your eyes a bit:


Read that part about the VVT solenoids.....how they can become worn and damaged by the wrong oil used. That's a new one I learned. My engine build was always going to include new VVT solenoids, new oil pump, new everything that touches oil in fact. But it's very interesting anyway. What we think we know.......but don't.

Read very carefully 9-7, paragraph 1 of the Nissan Juke 2014 owner's manual below. See how you are using the wrong viscosity engine oil for your 2013 or 2014 Gen1, which is actually 5W-30. See how this might affect oil pressure in a low priority region of the engine (i.e. cylinder head, timing chain, etc.), specially if the motor gets hot enough. See how that might be a problem? Did you read the part about serious engine damage in the owners manual, read that part?

YOU/FRIEND ARE USING THE WRONG VISCOSITY ENGINE OIL!!!!!

Do I know for fact 0w-20 oil in a motor rated for 5w-30 would cause damage.......no I don't. Will Nissan be able to escape any liability if you told them......oh yes they will. Tell your lawyer that you are using the wrong weight oil for the application. See how that severely weakens both your case and also your attempt to convince other Juke owners it's a recurring timing chain problem and not a self-inflicted owner problem. It's "possible" there are still chains that slip thru the cracks and fail.....absolutely yes. Anyone in Quality control can tell you there are always outliers, certainly possible. That is exactly why a warranty exists. For those that fall outside the warranty, the dealers use their judgement, it happens all the time but not in your case. YOUR case is built on a supposed systemic problem though, and presumably YOUR's is the case example of it. Well, no it isn't when the wrong engine oil is used. That invalidates anything you might find because the wrong viscosity oil can and will have a negative impact on tensioner performance, chain life, & tensioner guide life.

Look at the Mobil 1 oil viscosity charts below. The minimum viscosity @ 100*C shows how MUCH thinner the 20 weight is versus the 30 weight., 8.9 vs. 11.0 mm2/S. That is a big difference. The Mobil 1 data on 0W-20 is even less, about 8.7 mm2/S.


Your friend using 0W-20 weight oil would have likely been denied a warranty even if she was still within the warranty period. Pretty much clear in black and white, Nissan/dealer are free and clear of liability. Re-read the warrant disclaimer, they are well protected even if you/friend were within that 5 year/60k coverage, which you are not.

You......have......no......chance......of.......winning......a.......judgement......against.......Nissan.

Where you MIGHT have a case is if the DEALERSHIP themselves put in the 0W-20 and you documented it with service receipts, then you'd have a case against the dealership. Sorry man, I am for the little guy but it's not right what you are doing.


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I have a 2015 Ford Taurus SHO and they are the same way. VTT is sensitive to oil weight. Use what they say. the 3.5 V6 TT has its fair share of broken chains. All model years. Add in the water pump fiasco. Its a great motor but change your oil Sooner than later.

Joseph would go nuts if he owned a Ford. Way worse than Nissan when it comes to things that should be recalled and only get Tech bulletins or nothing done.
 

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Word. I've had (3) TSB bulletins: 1) Fuel pressure sendor torque 2) Boost line reference nipple or something 3) Timing chain. The CVT factory overfill royally pissed me off the first year of ownership though, then I figured it out myself and it was all bliss. I think that contributed to my CVT transmission wear as much as my mods. That one probably annoyed me the most, but ironically the easiest to solve.

Anyway, the fuel spray down the highway sucked, like 10 mpg fuel economy......and nearly got me killed when the Service tech decided to light up a cigarette......then I told him maybe not a good idea next to my car....lol. I'm actually surprised I didn't lean the motor and blow it up. The Juke motors are pretty tough though. Otherwise, a long long stretch of boring reliability until my CVT failed, pretty weird actually. I did have some funky push-to-start problems that I think I might have to address, but electrical issues never bother me too much. Don't know man, maybe I'm old school but I just suck it up.

So like, yeah I'm not stating the Nissan's are dead reliable.......look at what I just stated and you guys can see. I'm just saying they seem to have fixed the timing chain issue at some point. However, you guys can go buy boring if that works for you.
 

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Boring.......

Nissan Kicks.

Well just about anything Nissan.
 

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I'm going to play devil's advocate:

Nissan identify there is a problem with an SKU for their timing chain, it's been installed on all 2010-2012 vehicles, based on build date. The 2010-2012 model seem to be having a high incidence of timing chain issues, thus warranting evaluation by Nissan, and subsequent recall. Why not the 2013? Because the failure rates don't dictate it. That means the 2013 and up models must have already had an updated timing chain design, almost certainly. Whether the 2010-2012 "revised" timing chain IS the original 2013 timing chain is the question, I don't personally know. IF that's the case, what upgrades could the 2013 then get, if they already came with it. If NOT, Nissan deemed the frequency of failures on 2013 model year not sufficient to warrant a recall. THAT is the question. Follow, it still might NOT be as reliable as it should be, but it's enough to not meet full recall standards.

The burden is now on YOU for a good will coverage, which looks like you were turned down. It's a grey middle ground. I don't think anyone on the forums can help you solve it. Also, the timing chain is NOT the life of the vehicle, that kind of thinking will get you back to where you are at. They are good for 100k tops, don't care what the manual states.

You will keep on with ISO9000 but in fact it's because of ISO that the recall got rolled out. No companies are infallible. They did their best to address the issues. Seems the Gen2 are having a lot fewer problems.

Personal opinion here: Dealership should have good willed it or done at their cost. That's my opinion as the mileage of failure @ 65k miles seemed low. That is discretionary based on the dealership but they aren't obligated to.
But you stated wrong. The voluntary recall bulletin was for the 2011-2103 models. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/SB-10055923-4231.pdf
Sorry on the chain only being good for 100K. that is insane. you must be thinking about kevlar belts. Ask any mechanic, they will tell that they never get metal belts breaking. Possibly a tensioner may go or the rubber part. And you may think Nissan did their best, but unless you have talked to them on this issue, you will see that they are far from doing their best. They didn't even give us the courtesy to meet personally with any of their technical people to discuss the issue. Probably too hard to face somebody when you know there is something they are hiding. As far as the dealership goes, they were only going by what head office was saying. And even the Nissan District manager for dealers was going by instructions from head office. "Sorry, er can't do anything for you", even when we had an early chain failure. Give me a break! We'll leave it up to the judge to decide.
 

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My friend always had the oil changed as required with the right 0-20W Mobil 1 synthetic grade. I'm looking at the Nissan dealer invoice showing milage at 1066,824 km, it's a 2014MY manufactured on November 26, 2013, and the cost to repair was $2,442.20. When we took it into the dealer, the engine was "rattling" as observed by the Service Manager. I said it sounded like the timing chain and he said they'd do an analysis because it has a sensor. Their electronic analysis diagnosed it as the timing chain being at fault, and if we didn't bring it in, it could have broken and destroyed the engine. Took them 11 days to repair it. FYI, I have taken mechanical courses in community colleges for engines pertaining to auto, marine, and aviation, so I do have knowledge of combustible engines. I do all my own work, even on my own airplane, under the observation of a certified A.M.E. Also, I notice that the guide tensioner has the two side "dog" clips that hold it in place to the rail guide were broken off, so I'm not sure if that happened when it was taken out by the mechanic or if it may have been the cause of the chain going off the rail and started the chain to slap around due to losing tension? As for the timing chain, it does not appear to be stretched as others have reported, and until I compare it to a new one, that cause of stretching will be unknown. Why they would use plastic on a rail guide in a hot oil environment, is beyond me. With time, the wrong plastic material gets brittle and can break with little tension.
Sorry, that was not 0W-20 synthetic that was used, it was 5W-30 synthetic. My mistake.
 

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My friend always had the oil changed as required with the right 0-20W Mobil 1 synthetic grade. I'm looking at the Nissan dealer invoice showing milage at 1066,824 km, it's a 2014MY manufactured on November 26, 2013, and the cost to repair was $2,442.20. When we took it into the dealer, the engine was "rattling" as observed by the Service Manager. I said it sounded like the timing chain and he said they'd do an analysis because it has a sensor. Their electronic analysis diagnosed it as the timing chain being at fault, and if we didn't bring it in, it could have broken and destroyed the engine. Took them 11 days to repair it. FYI, I have taken mechanical courses in community colleges for engines pertaining to auto, marine, and aviation, so I do have knowledge of combustible engines. I do all my own work, even on my own airplane, under the observation of a certified A.M.E. Also, I notice that the guide tensioner has the two side "dog" clips that hold it in place to the rail guide were broken off, so I'm not sure if that happened when it was taken out by the mechanic or if it may have been the cause of the chain going off the rail and started the chain to slap around due to losing tension? As for the timing chain, it does not appear to be stretched as others have reported, and until I compare it to a new one, that cause of stretching will be unknown. Why they would use plastic on a rail guide in a hot oil environment, is beyond me. With time, the wrong plastic material gets brittle and can break with little tension.
Sorry, that was not 0W-20 synthetic that was used, it was 5W-30 synthetic. My mistake.
 

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Got it, thought it was a recall.

I honestly don't know what the 2013-2014 failures looked like but it probably wasn't high enough to warrant a TSB. In my field a TSB is a bit different. It's typically a heads-up to dealers of a pending issue. They can escalate it to an RMA or warranty claim I suppose if their customer was affected, or they can use a work around or good will service. A recall need not be safety based, but more liability based and it's rare IMHO for my field.

Joseph, it just seems to me WAY WAY out of proportion to the cost you/friend incurred. I have stated that the timing chain itself is a CONSUMABLE, it's NOT life of the vehicle. You can parse the service manual to give you that impression, but it isn't so.....not by a long shot. They are covered on the powertrain at 5 years/60k miles so it's clearly NOT a for-life product, in fact NONE of the car is. When you understand how a complex machine works, it's remarkable they can go 5 years with the abuse and neglect owners give them.

I don't know if it's YOU escalating it with your lawyer or the other way around, then looking for other 2013-2014 owners to justify your case. It almost appears to be an attempt at a class action..........and I don't see it happening......nope I don't. If you had lost an engine.........then maybe lawsuit time, even then you were out of warranty at that point. No, that didn't actually happen from what you stated unless I missed something. That is what really bothers me. I know it's $1600-$1700, it sucks and not everyone is rich but please get over it already. Like I said, dealer should just have done it for cost IMHO to keep a happy customer.

There are probabilities of failure, Weibull distribution curves and all that good stuff. I did quite a bit of research on Bosch CVT belt reliability and came away a bit surprised about failure modes, cycles to failure, etc. There are no guarantees at all. The product doesn't have much over design, those that fall under the expected life.........they get a warranty. That's how she works boys and girls. Cheaper to warranty those few then over design for everyone else. Yes, I do new product development. Yes, I do DFMEA during product development. Yes, I do failure mode analysis of existing production products. Yes, I have a predicted failure rate which is acceptable to my field....which is much higher than automotive actually. Yes, we do component/product running changes/revisions to increase reliability. I calculate cost added to a product to achieve a certain SAFETY margin and failure probability, which is difficult to ascertain on product launch. Yes, I do reliability testing. I design my DVP&R test plans, run them thru accelerated life cycle. Yes, I conduct field trials for those same products in the real-world. All that good stuff a Nissan engineer would do as well. It's not perfect, sometimes real world trumps lab testing. But I believe Nissan did the best they could with the corrective actions they implemented in terms of the timing chain TSB, that's my opinion. You got caught outside the warranty period, which sucks but isn't all that common either. Most will get 100k on their chains with frequent oil changes and normal driving.

You/friend now have the best timing chain components they can offer. I'm stating right now: have your friend run 100% Synthetic engine oil and change oil filters every 3-6k miles and this doesn't happen again for at least 100k miles. Don't tell me about timing chain tensioner shoe design and all that BS, you are NOT an automotive design engineer. I showed you mine with 80K of HARD brutal miles and it was no where near failing. I'm expecting the timing shoe to be ULTEM material which is pretty durable especially to high engine oil temps, but without a material analysis I have no idea. I checked the updated timing chain slack and it was within factory spec, ZERO wear on the chain pins and journals.....ZERO wear and ZERO stretch. I think that illustrates they might have effectively corrected the problem. I have no idea about the ORIGINAL timing chain.....and I don't care, cause it was covered under the TSB. The timing tensioner shoe had wear but again it was nowhere near failure, what would you expect from sliding friction surface anyway. Run the synthetic.....and come back when it fails, cause it won't. That service cost was competitive too, I doubt you can get quoted much lower anywhere else. You don't buy a $25,000 complex piece of equipment with ZERO investment in maintenance. It doesn't work that way, you gotta pay to keep equipment on the road. It will PAY OFF by not having to buy a new vehicle later, probably equal to (3-4) car new car payments before payoff, that is actually extremely reasonable.

What I'm talking about is a LONG term investment mindset. I seriously don't think you have a concept of how that works.....cost of ownership. Probably that timing chain service will allow the Juke to stay on the road another 100k miles with reasonable maintenance. Again, it's SAD you spent this much time lawyering up. You know it's almost like you took this personally with Nissan and are just not letting it go. Good luck and hope you figure it all out but I don't think anyone here can help you further, but if they do then thanks to them.
If you are talking that the life of a metal timing chain is only 60,000 miles / 100,000 km, there is no person on earth that will buy a car knowing that they have to spend upwards of $2,500. to put a new chain in, or that when the chain fails before that, they will need a new engine, because their busted chain disintegrated and ate through the engine casing beyond repair! People pay all that money on new cars, expecting small failures to happen, but not major ones, otherwise, the company would go out of business in no time. That's been my 56 years of owning many cars. And as for the labor cost of $1,836. and $606. for parts to put in a new chain, not to mention 11 days of renting a car, how many times does a person want to do that?
 

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Joseph,

First, your friend doesn't qualify for the TSB, never did after November 2012 build date.

That 0-20W spec doesn't seem right. The Gen1 ran a 5W-30 spec, Gen2 ran 0W-20. Please someone correct me with a screenshot of the Service manual cause I know what the 2012 run and it isn't 0-20W. IF it's NOT the right weight oil, then the timing chain tensioner would see lower oil pressure due to gap clearances in the mains bleeding it off.

Can't answer the plastic question. Less timing tension control means more chain whip, you are possibly looking at the effect and not the cause. I always look back at the oil, go research timing chain failures and see the common denominator.
Sorry, I put it down wrong, that should be 5W-30, not 0W-20. My mistake, because the dealership put that on the invoice and I did confirm with them that they put down the wrong grade of synthetic oil. They assured me it was the right oil.
 

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Sure, meant to say up to November 2012 build date, which would include early 2013 models.

You didn't have an early timing chain failure, it made it past the 5 year/60,000 mile warranty period. This is what you don't understand, somehow you are attempting to revise the warranty period or something. The original TSB was issued during a period when MOST of the affected vehicles were WITHIN their warranty period.

A TSB on a 2013-2014 model year NOW is pointless, every one of those cars is by default OUT OF WARRANTY.

If Nissan goes out of business due to perceived lack of quality, that's their problem. I can't see how if your friend agreed to buying a vehicle with a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty, and had a failure afterwards, how she has a legal case. You should analyze the rational of original TSB, and how the vehicles affected by it were mostly WITHIN their warranty periods. Thus putting Nissan in a bit of a bind about being proactive to stop future warranty claims from decimating their reputation. A TSB issued on vehicles well outside their warranty period doesn't make much sense, especially after having ate it on the first TSB. And I explained WHY the TSB wasn't extended to the 2013-2014, cause they ALREADY had the revised chains. Your friend was simply unlucky.

Having just had these circular arguements with you, I can see why Nissan corporate or the dealerships refused to hear you out any further. That's me read on the situation.

Where's my 3 drinks....lol.
 

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Sure, meant to say up to November 2012 build date, which would include early 2013 models.

You didn't have an early timing chain failure, it made it past the 5 year/60,000 mile warranty period. This is what you don't understand, somehow you are attempting to revise the warranty period or something. The original TSB was issued during a period when MOST of the affected vehicles were WITHIN their warranty period.

A TSB on a 2013-2014 model year NOW is pointless, every one of those cars is by default OUT OF WARRANTY.

If Nissan goes out of business due to perceived lack of quality, that's their problem. I can't see how if your friend agreed to buying a vehicle with a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty, and had a failure afterwards, how she has a legal case. You should analyze the rational of original TSB, and how the vehicles affected by it were mostly WITHIN their warranty periods. Thus putting Nissan in a bit of a bind about being proactive to stop future warranty claims from decimating their reputation. A TSB issued on vehicles well outside their warranty period doesn't make much sense, especially after having ate it on the first TSB. And I explained WHY the TSB wasn't extended to the 2013-2014, cause they ALREADY had the revised chains. Your friend was simply unlucky.

Having just had these circular arguements with you, I can see why Nissan corporate or the dealerships refused to hear you out any further. That's me read on the situation.

Where's my 3 drinks....lol.
And if there is a serious injury(s) or death(s) on the highway because a so-called "probable" defective timing chain suddenly loses power and can experience catastrophic failure while driving on a highway and starts a chain reaction collision, then the NTSA and Transport Canada gets involved in an investigation, resulting in a major mandatory recall of all the 2014 and MY2013 Jukes, then will the situation change? If they see that the chains were failing with other out of warranty vehicles and being repaired at licensed garages or Nissan dealerships, then the entire picture will change as well, and every vehicle, regardless of age and mileage will have to be looked at, and you know who's going to absorb the cost on that? We're not talking defective toasters or lawn tractors here, we're talking something major that can take people's lives. It was already determined in a class action suit involving other Nissan models, Maxima, Nissan Quest, Nissan Altima (VQ35 engine), Nissan pathfinder, Nisan Xterra and Nissan Frontier (VQ49 engine), all from between 2004 to 2009, had a timing chain noise and that is what the lawsuit was about, not a safety hazard. But those systems didn't cause a single crash or injury! Nissan knew about the chain problem from early customer complaints, dealer input and from internal data. Yet with this knowledge, Nissan continued to install the defective timing chains in the vehicles. And it came to light that Nissan vehicles use a uniform timing chain system consisting of the same slack guide, secondary chain, and secondary tensioners. Nissan allegedly tried to fix the timing chain problems but everything the automaker tried allegedly ended up failing. And that is why, once found out, Nissan finally redesigned the system. All vehicle parts are only good as the engineers that design the parts! So you see, Nissan has had previous experience with bad timing chain design, Juke wasn't the first and that is why they should have extended the year models, not really knowing what the models past 2013 would bring. Sorry, but you haven't convinced me that Nissan should be in the clear on our and other owners' problems, who have also had issues with their "rattling and broken" timing chains on Jukes manufactured after the 3rd quarter of 2013.
 

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Sounds good.
 

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Continue on and fight what you can. It wont do any good.
 

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Does anyone know what part number timing chain showed up to be faulty on all the MY2011-2013 Juke vehicles, as part of their SB-1005885-321 Voluntary Campagne Bulletin NTB14-030 involving 93,559 Jukes with defective timing chains? Also, when were the new improved chains made to be installed to replace the faulty chains? Was there a different part number that these new chains came out under? Did they have to be certified by the government? Seriously, I can't figure out how Nissan could not include the entire year of the 2013 year cars, and not include MY2014 cars that were built in the last quarter of 2013 under this recall? In my case, how could Nissan have known the chain was not faulty when installed in my Juke manufactured on November 26, 20213? Nissan Head Office Had no answer for me when I asked them to explain to me why my chain failed at 1086,800 km? Is Nissan hiding something from Juke owners that are facing early timing chain problems? Many are having the same problem as I am having. Or are they waiting for owner to put more miles on their cars, and then say that it is normal for older cars to have that problem.?
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They used the same crapass chain as the original but in the process you do not get to restart the warranty when they do the work. So basically they will replace it for you even if your out of warranty but if it starts making noise in 10k miles your on your own. Just did my 2nd one 6 mo ago
 

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Bought the timing set for 125$ and put it in with a buddy that has a shop. I did it with him and to make life easier I used a 2-1/2” hole saw the make way thru the fender. 100x easier to get to for next time..... and there will be a next time
 

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They used the same crapass chain as the original but in the process you do not get to restart the warranty when they do the work. So basically they will replace it for you even if your out of warranty but if it starts making noise in 10k miles your on your own. Just did my 2nd one 6 mo ago
Go to page 2, look at the original timing chain design. Now compare it to what you currently own, I just did myself. They originally used a single-alternating link design, the chain from the recall has a double-alternating link design, plus the improved metallurgy. Why yours failed, who knows. But claiming it's the same P/N is completely untrue, it's clearly revised. Mine went 60k miles with zero issue, car has 80k miles.
 

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Juke Timing Chain issue

I have a 2013 Nissan Juke. I've owned it 2.5 years; I've put on 52K of the 82K miles that are on the odometer. I took my Juke in for an oil change and asked my mechanic to investigate rattling noise. Timing chain needs to be replaced $1200-$1500. After investigating I discovered that the original owner had the chain replaced during the "service campaign" and this will be the 3rd(!) timing chain in this car in 82K miles. Discovering the magnitude of the timing chain issue with Nissan, I am going full hog battle with them. They keep trying to shut me down because I'm not in warranty; this has nothing to do with warranty and everything to do with shoddy workmanship on their part. Would love to hear from anyone that has a Juke and timing chain issue. There's already a class action suit for other model cars...
Hello Kathipeacock, I am experiencing a similar issues and would like to hear more about yours.
 
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