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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, few months back, i replaced the CVT with a manufactured "New" CVT from Nissan. Did the work myself, it wasn't hard to do, just time consuming. TCM was updated by Nissan ($150) using the software that came with the CVT. Only additional thing that was done, i added a FR AWD Down Pipe since i had the engine out anyway. I bought a 2017 Titan XD PR Cummings to get by while i was working on the CVT. Pretty much drive that as my main vehicle as i love it more than the Juke. My Juke has been sitting, with my wife driving it every now and then. She keeps telling me that it feels like it slips and loses power. Of course i fear the worst thinking i got a shitty CVT from Nissan.

So the other day i drove it to work to see for myself. It doesn't feel like its the CVT, I've felt that slippage before when the old CVT was failing. This is something different, like a shudder. It will shudder when taking off unless you take off very slowly. During normal drive speeds, if you suddenly accelerate (passing a left lane driver after riding their ass for 1.5 miles) it will shudder during the acceleration. Almost like the power from the engine has a delay and the Transfer suddenly gets hit with the torque and the tires are skipping. This action is present in all ranges (Front,AWD-V, AWD). Any ideas? Fluid levels on CVT are normal, doesn't feel like CVT anyway. About to jack it up and check the transfer fluid level. No leaks detected anywhere. Any help is greatly appreciated. I've got to get it running right for my daughter to use. Her Juke's injectors are starting to fail.
 

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Torque converter lockup issue? I think these have a lockup around 1800 rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
But the new CVT came with a new Torque Converter. Ill have to do a bit of research and compare symptoms.
 

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Shudder is the CVT. You could verify this by datalogging the CVT using CVTz50. Otherwise it's a lot of guesswork. I can from a datalog tell if the converter is slipping or if the CVT belt or forward clutches are slipping. Are you running a factory new CVT or a reman?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Alright, downloaded it and will data log for a day or so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
pboglio, not sure what files you need but i attached both of them. Also it is a re-manufactured from Nissan with a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty.
 

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OK,

Did you have any TCM codes? This could have been logged as DTC on the CVTz50 software and would show as a check engine light.
Also, when you shift from Park to Drive is there a big shock or jolt or is there minimal shock?

The shudder is most typically describing the forward clutch packs or possibly the torque converter lockup clutch. CVT belt doesn't shudder off the line, the computer is putting big time pressure on it to prevent this....even on a worn belt. Belt usually slips at high rpms in the lower "gears" 2-3 and in the taller pulley/gear ratios at low rpms like 5th-6th gear for reasons I will skip to keep things brief. Shudder off the line is a clutch problem or CVT fluid issue. Owners who ran Valvoline CVT fluid ran into this shudder problem. Never happened to me on Nissan CVT fluid or AMSOIL though.

Firstly, if you can kick the sampling rate/logging rate to the max the data will look better. It's like 1 sample per 4 seconds, and it should be like 2-4 samples per second or something like this. Second, see if you can select "all" the transmission variables to log. You are missing the "actual gear ratio" which is needed to see if the belt is slipping, can't tell.

From the logs I see the "slip revs" are exceeding "-20 rpms".....this is bad. This is telling me either the torque converter is slipping, which I highly doubt, or most likely the forward clutch packs are slipping which usually will be the cause of the shudder as well. The belt I cannot tell is slipping because I would compare the "gear ratio" value to the "actual gear ratio" value to rule it out. If they are different, the pulley's are not at the correct ratio and it's the belt slippage would cause that. Hope that makes sense. Computer is checking the primary speed sensor to the secondary speed sensor. You have: Engine rpm (i.e. torque converter input shaft), then Primary speed sensor (1st pulley), then Secondary speed sensor (i.e. wheel speed sensor on 1st gen CVT). If engine rpm and primary speed sensor don't match, it's the torque converter clutch OR the forward clutch slipping. If Primary speed sensor and Secondary speed sensor don't correlate to the commanded gear ratio.......then it's the CVT pushbelt slipping. All 3 rpms usually are logged as well and when there is a differential......that becomes the "slip rev" logged value.

The pulley pressures look good but the belt could be wiped and it wouldn't matter, it would slip anyway. The clutch lockup pressure is calculated/derived from the Line pressure so it's sort of useless as it's not a direct measurement. Anyhow, the slip revs are a good indication of how "strong" the torque converter, clutches, or CVT pushbelt is grabbing. In some places you have "-57" rpms slippage which means a very screwed up transmission. Right when the slippage happens, you are exceeding 160-180 N-m of torque on the datalogs, mostly in a taller "gear" which would be expected. This is a really low torque to be slipping a CVT.......unless it is worn out. Typically a healthy CVT will show around 5-12 rpm slip rev values at max torque. A value of 127 just means the torque converter is "unlocked" which is normal below 15 kph, above that it will lockup fully on a 2nd gen and about 30 kph on a 1st gen.

There is a slight possibility the input shaft o-ring that seals the torque converter clutch pressure to the clutch could have been damaged on install or during the rebuild.....this would be bad if that happened. The converter is strapped to the transmission using a metal bracket to keep it from falling off and to keep the converter spline connected to the CVT oil pump to drive it. Anyway, a damaged o-ring would look a lot like a failing torque converter. If you are gonna pull the CVT anyway I would check this o-ring to make sure it was intact and seated properly. Longs shot but it's worth a look if it's off the car.

Just look into those suggestions and get back to us if you can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
No CVT DTC codes. The Engine had two but those where from installing the down pipe. I've already installed the O2 spacer to correct the issue. I turned off the Monitor Engine and DTC and that fixed the sample rate. I did the install myself on the CVT, the metal bracket was in place on the converter. Once everything was lined up, i removed it and slid the CVT flush. Hard part was getting the flex plate to line up, but hardest was getting the dam nuts on without them falling in the bell housing. I had to fish a couple out, also i used new nuts because the old ones required an extractor to remove. If i remember correctly, i had zero leakage from the torque converter when installing the CVT. If we can figure out that it is the torque converter, its going back to Nissan because they sold me a CVT with a defective converter. Then they can replace everything as its covered under the CVT warranty.
 

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OK, sounds like you installed it correctly. Just trying to rule out install issues. I'm gonna review the logs again today and see what's up but with the sampling rate kicked up it's going to be obvious what's going on. The lack of DTC is promising since any failing CVT or valvebody will almost guaranteed throw DTC if it's bad.
 

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Reviewed it.

This CVT is slipping way worse then my failed CVT right before it blew up. Whether it's the torque converter, forward clutches, or CVT pushbelt I cannot tell because for some reason the "actual gear ratio" is not being displayed on the logs for some reason. It wouldn't matter, I'd replace the entire CVT anyway if I saw that. The DTC code usually get's thrown when the gear ratios are in-correct. Usually that would be a valve body issue of the ratio controller, 1st and 2nd gen operate slightly differently. Slipping belt's also throw off the speed/gear ratios briefly during the slippage event but not always enough to throw a DTC. Tough to say in this case as I cannot see the output of the Primary or Secondary speed sensors to check it. But it's an academic point anyway.

It's my opinion that your CVT is 100% failed in terms of operating in the nominal range. Call it a shudder but in reality it's slipping quite badly once you get up near 200 N-m torque it's continuously slipping at a high rate. You could switch to AMSOIL to greatly reduce the slippage until you can get a replacement CVT in there as a stop gap. That is 100% going to make a difference but it's temporary. I see this CVT dying within 5,000 to 8,000 miles to where you won't be able to drive it at all.

I'm gonna recommend this again, if you can swing a brand new factory Nissan CVT then do so. Reman units are pure JUNK. Soft parts are installed and USED hard parts thrown in only if the originals were totally destroyed. There are about 100 ways they could rebuild a CVT even with perfectly good parts and still make it run bad. The reman transmissions are many times done by 3rd party companies. Most companies don't have a transmission dyno or end-of-line tester so there is no way they can guarantee the unit is working properly before it's shipped out.

I went into this discussion before in another thread. When I rebuilt my totally destroyed CVT I replaced and upgraded EVERYTHING you could possibly replace with either brand new parts or used good components that had minimal to no wear. Belts, clutches, valvebody......all brand new OEM or aftermarket upgraded. Anything that broke that is not available new I bought used parts from ebay junk transmissions and inspected carefully, sometimes buying 3-4 parts to pick the absolute most pristine to use in my upgraded CVT. No reman CVT is going to do that, no way no how. This is why I'm saying buy a brand new CVT and just avoid the hassle. When last I looked dealers were still offering new and reman side-by-side for nearly the same price without the core. I think I saw a new one for $1896 from my local Nissan.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I call the local dealership today where i ordered the CVT. Left a message, but i'm about to get off work for the day and headed that way. So, i understand what you are saying about new vs reman, however the part number that is shown as the new CVT is no longer valid. I tried when i had to purchase the CVT. I've called corporate and just about ever dealer that has one shown as in stock within 200 miles. The part number will only get you a reman CVT. The CVT is rebuilt by the manufacturer, not Nissan and is warrantied with 12 months or 12,000 miles. The price you listed is around what i paid. Add tax and core to the listed price. It was even on the old shipping container pouch from the manufacture to my Nissan dealership. I picked it up from the dealer.

End result either way is to go raise hell and get a replacement.
 

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OK, the +2015 CVT are not available new, just reman. Confirmed. The 2010-2014 are still available new. That is the confusion. Odd but it is what it is.

Raise hell I guess. They should reimburse you the cost of the install/removal. It's possible the 2nd reman unit will work. But consider why they only give a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. I would almost take the risk on a $500 low mileage CVT off a front/rear collision from Ebay. Normally I wouldn't recommend it, but I'd trust a 30,000-40,000 mile used CVT over any pile of junk reman unit.
Anyway, hopefully you get it all resolved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Taking it in Friday for diagnostics. They have to run Nissan diagnostics on the CVT first to determine that the CVT is in fact defective. Once that is done they will replace it under the warranty, however labor is not covered. So i have to get ready to pull the freaking engine again and spend more money on fluids. At least i have a better idea of what i'm doing this time around.
 
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