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Discussion Starter #221
My goal is to hit 300+ whp and try to keep it as stock as possible. The turbo Bay might be the way to go. How much different is the 20T compared to the Wheel TB is using ?

Either way its a serious amount of $$$ to do more power.
Mac, I agree. I costed out a Blouch 16g with an adapter and downpipe, it’s about $2k. What I did was I looked at the GTX2860 and looked at their turbine flow for different A/R. I then looked at a slightly smaller GT2560 and did the same. You can see how a bigger wheel in a smaller A/R at some point doesn’t work. The new Mamba already have the high flow turbine, I believe this is the turbo 2J ran to make their 315 whp run. If you have the Mamba already, why not rebuild it with the higher flow TD04L turbine, it’s a direct drop in upgrade for about $150.

When I looked at the 52mm wheel from turbobay I noticed how large the hub diameter was and how restrictive looking the wheel profile was. The new mamba high flow TD04L wheel has a small diameter hub which makes the turbine blade look and act like a bigger wheel, plus a taller blade height to extract more energy, with a blade profile that already looks clipped, plus 9 vs 11/12 blades. I don’t think that 52mm turbine is going to significantly outflow it by much if not at all. I wouldn’t drop another $1000 on a turbo that is barely higher flowing then the current newer Mamba.
 

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Mac, I agree. I costed out a Blouch 16g with an adapter and downpipe, it’s about $2k. What I did was I looked at the GTX2860 and looked at their turbine flow for different A/R. I then looked at a slightly smaller GT2560 and did the same. You can see how a bigger wheel in a smaller A/R at some point doesn’t work. The new Mamba already have the high flow turbine, I believe this is the turbo 2J ran to make their 315 whp run. If you have the Mamba already, why not rebuild it with the higher flow TD04L turbine, it’s a direct drop in upgrade for about $150.

When I looked at the 52mm wheel from turbobay I noticed how large the hub diameter was and how restrictive looking the wheel profile was. The new mamba high flow TD04L wheel has a small diameter hub which makes the turbine blade look and act like a bigger wheel, plus a taller blade height to extract more energy, with a blade profile that already looks clipped, plus 9 vs 11/12 blades. I don’t think that 52mm turbine is going to significantly outflow it by much if not at all. I wouldn’t drop another $1000 on a turbo that is barely higher flowing then the current newer Mamba.
Thats why I asked. Great idea.

What about the 20T wheel that Turbo Noob recommended or said could work ?

I still have my OEM turbo that has maybe 3k miles on it. Prolly should save it.

I should just get a used turbo and get a shop to rebuild it .......
 

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Discussion Starter #223
I'm sure it "could" work. And here is what I was saying though, the 19T already outflows the TD04L, TD04L high flow, or the 52mm Garrett turbine wheel (Turbobay) in the 5 cm2 housing by quite a margin. The 20T won't increase the turbo flow cause the turbine is choked at about 315 whp. The 2J dyno run pretty much confirmed it, along with their having to run octane booster to get another 20 whp out of it. The 20T I don't think would hurt much, just not help any. For the power a 20T can push out, it really needs a TD04HL turbine with a 6cm or even 7cm turbine housing.

Here's a thread about the 20T:

 

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I'm sure it "could" work. And here is what I was saying though, the 19T already outflows the TD04L, TD04L high flow, or the 52mm Garrett turbine wheel (Turbobay) in the 5 cm2 housing by quite a margin. The 20T won't increase the turbo flow cause the turbine is choked at about 315 whp. The 2J dyno run pretty much confirmed it, along with their having to run octane booster to get another 20 whp out of it. The 20T I don't think would hurt much, just not help any. For the power a 20T can push out, it really needs a TD04HL turbine with a 6cm or even 7cm turbine housing.

Here's a thread about the 20T:

Gotcha Makes sense.

I am using an old Cored Mamba Matt had with the 6+6 blade wheel. Not High flow I would assume.

Now I looked on Mamba's site and they did not have the high flow wheel unmounted. Just the rebuilt wheel housing for $500. I assume you can buy a 19T wheel from other sources.

As far as working. You can see my Power drop off at 6250 rpms. If the 19T can indeed flow past that. 300whp should be easy with the redline extended to 7200rpms.

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I should just get a 19T installed by BNR with the mods that Egg had done. He never reported back with his update on how it did. I cannot see it performing worse than my Mamba or worse than just a wheel swap on my Mamba.

My Mamba on the right and my OEM on the left at Matt's.

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Discussion Starter #226
Hmm, ok. First, the high flow TD04L is shown under the Volvo option, I found it by accident actually. Second, the new Mamba already come with it, so I know it fits. I’ll guinee pig it if your worried. Third, I think I know why you have the hard rpm drop off......wastegate actuator blow open. The new Mamba have the machined aluminum wastegate actuator with different high pressure springs, mine has it already. The high flow turbine and bigger actuator is the way to go to get your goal. BNR or Turbobay, same limitations and huge waste of money actually.
 

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Yeah that pic has the OEM WG as thats what it had on it at Matts shop before he installed it.

I have the 14psi Springs in the Turbosmart WG installed on mine and tuned for for it.

One thing I want to do is when I re-tune is have a WG spring pressure tune included in the 5 maps. That way I can still run if the Boost solenoid craps out( re-plumb it of course. I drive with a spare solenoid anyway but why not have a simple tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #228 (Edited)
Mac, I found something on the Mamba site. They have a 45.6/52mm TD04HL 11 blade high flow wheel for $119. Also the brand new housing machine for it at $199 for the juke. This is the way to go, drop in with a rebuild. I think this’ll flow easily 350 hp, maybe 380 hp but pushing the back pressure pretty hard. Maybe worth it now that I’m seeing it myself.

That 14 psi spring isn't enough to hold past 6250 rpms, not with the turbine pressure the small wheel has. The stock wastegate flapper is fairly large.........this makes holding boost very difficult at high rpms without a heavy duty spring. An 18 psi spring would be much better for peak power, though it might spike a bit more.

Tune would be nice, who tunes it?
 

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Discussion Starter #230
Mac,

Use this link for the TD04HL-9 blade wheel:


I'm looking for a source on MHI turbine wheel for the TD04HL-12 blade OEM. They are Inconel and the original with much higher reliability than the Mamba.
I used to be able to find them, but they are rare to find these days. I'd rather run the OEM turbine wheel for higher reliability.
 

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Choices choices........
 

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Discussion Starter #232 (Edited)
Yep, decisions indeed. This style turbo is going to be extremely similar to a Garrett T28.

The T28 specs:
Compressor Inducer: 46.5mm
Compressor Exducer: 60mm
Compressor Trim: 60 trim
Compressor blade count: 6+6
Turbine Inducer: 46.9mm
Turbine Exducer: 53.9mm
Turbine trim: 76
Turbine Blade count: 9 high flow

Mamba 19T/TD04HL specs:
Compressor Inducer: 46mm
Compressor Exducer: 58mm
Compressor Trim: 63 trim
Compressor Blade count: 11 extended tip
Turbine Inducer: 45.6mm
Turbine Exducer: 52mm
Turbine trim: 77 trim
Turbine Blade count: 9 high flow

Below is a comparison of the stock Juke 5cm2 turbine housing and an Eclipse MHI 6cm2 (TD05H) turbine housing, note how close in size the volute (i.e. throat looks). They are in fact nearly identical in cross sectional area where it meets the turbine wheel, based on my internal measurements. Surface finish is WAY smoother, like a ported housing vs. the extremely rough sand casting finish of the MHI 6cm2 housing. The flow rate is probably 350 hp for the 6cm housing, as a comparison and was used on the TD05H/14b turbos and sometimes the TD05H/16g-small. The 6cm housing is sized for the higher flowing TD05H wheel so it has a larger "A" diameter to fit the wheel, the 5cm housing is sized perfectly for the T035 or TD04L wheel, while the TD04HL wheel is pushing the limit of what can fit inside it.

The T28 typically ran a 6cm^2 housing on the 2gen Eclipse, and they were nominally rated for 350 hp. The Mamba Juke 19T/TD04HL/5cm would be a near match for it.

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Discussion Starter #233
Looked around and did some research. I talked with G-pop Shop and they will VSR balance the Mamba turbo for me. I'll be sending them a bored out turbine housing for the TD04HL wheel, and the 11-blade TD04HL wheel itself, along with my Mamba Juke 19T/TD04L new turbo. I picked the 11-blade turbine because it has a bigger hub diameter for improved strength, and I've heard of several 9-blade failures in other applications. G-pop say Mamba are a good supplier so I'm trusting that, rather have MHI but they don't sell turbo parts anymore. I'm also staying with the 11-blade compressor as it's a GTX style and better for high pressure ratio applications. The TD04HL turbine from my calculations should nearly be good for 380-400 h.p. The most I've seen from a standard TD04L is about 320 hp give or take. Costwise I'll be in for another $119 turbine wheel + $199 turbine housing + $120 shipping all ways + $100 VSR balancing. So about $530 all included. Not cheap, but then I'd rather spend the money now than have to pull the turbo off later to upgrade. The other options I had were a GTX2860 (~420 hp) or Blouch 16g. I think the 19T/TD04HL will be enough for my CVT and probably the limit of what the drivetrain can handle.
 

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@pboglio

Sounds like a great plan. Great research. I think it might be the way to go for me. Thank you for that.

That road map should work for you without costly mods and such for other types of turbos. Matt has had great success with larger turbos on CVTs as you know. Either way your build will shine.

Coil overs and 8.5" wide Nitto tires first for me. I was driving today. 60 deg. 1st and 2nd are just useless. 2nd to 3rd I lose grip. I am sure on a prepped track I could stick it but not on normal roads with the tires I have,
 

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Discussion Starter #235
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, Matt’s approach is the better one. I’d love to rock a ball bearing Garrett but at the end of the day, it’s a bit much for my daily. The TD04HL option is a big improvement for the Mamba. The improved hotside should also help fuel economy.

That sucks about the traction. I really am not a fan of FWD. I liked the RS stock but driving a standard juke manual was depressing how much wheelspin it had. The torque hit from an AWD coming into boost is addictive. I’d think the LSD would have helped? I get wheel spin but only in the rain, pretty fun stuff getting all 4 going while the car starts stepping the rear end out.
 

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Yeah the LSD helps but I just gotta do what I gotta do. Pony up for traction.
 

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Yeah the LSD helps but I just gotta do what I gotta do. Pony up for traction.
With how much you drive your Juke, you might as well just get some NT01s. I have them on my Bug and they are extra sticky! FWD Juke traction issues are real...
 

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Discussion Starter #238
Turbine housing and TD04HL are on order from Mambatek. The TD04L heatshield is reused. I’ll snap some pics before I ship it out to G-pop.

I was looking to see if the RS LSD would fit on the AWD but the bolt pattern was 10 bolts vs 8 or something like that. I have some traction issues on occasion on corner entry at full power, but mostly traction is good. I don’t know how you FWD guys stand it. I’ve run AWD since 1997 and haven’t looked back since.
 

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Gene - I am with you on that. I had my share of FWD cars and wont really own another that is modified. I am kinda worried about the traction issues my Cobalt is going to have with 280 whp / 320 wtq with an open diff (stock engine, tune only).... This is why we stick to our Evos for high power! That said, I can still light up all 4 from a dig. Haha

Cant wait to see the outcome of the new turbo. Glad you decided to go custom with it. Cheaper and better!
 

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Discussion Starter #240
Storm Tropper,

Absolutely, no replacement for AWD. The EVO sounds like fun, I'm getting ready to pull mine out of storage. Might drop it off with AMS and have my Cosworth cams installed but other than that gonna be super busy getting the Juke running before the end of the year. Turbo should work out well, I don't have crazy goals. If I can hit maybe 280-290 w.h.p. on the CVT I'd be happy. Highest I've seen on the stock frame turbo for a CVT is around 255 whp.

Yeah, turbo should be a fun little project. Thanks to MacGyver for pushing me to try the Turbobay w/52mm wheel, but this is $500 vs. spending nearly $1000. I like running stock frame turbo's, keeps the engine compartment from looking like a science project. The CVT can't handle much more than a 16g sized turbo anyway, so for us CVT owners this might be the simplest solution. Wish Mamba would just sell the dang turbo like this from the get go, they have all the parts already. Might be worth asking them to reconfigure the turbo this way.
 
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