[pboglio]

Good info here.

The Loctite I used is probably a .015" gap fill but I'll have to check again. For those that use this Loctite compound it makes a teardown so easy/painless and there is no over application that can plug the transmission as it stays liquid and dissolves in oil unless air is removed. The reason I use it actually is that it's more resistant to CVT oil leaks as the CVT oil can eat away at the factory silicon sealant which happened to me. The machined flanged mating surfaces shouldn't have big gaps so you are more than covered. Good call rebuilding the valvebody. Mine had a galled piston bore for the ratio control so I simply replaced the entire unit though I did rebuild it to clean it out and clean/install some internal filters that Jatco left out. Sonnax offer many upgraded valve body piston options but for now I'm using a stock valvebody.

I didn't have problems with the Variator assembly/disassembly or cocking/jamming, maybe I just got lucky. I typically used WD40 for pressing as the oil is thin and doesn't affect the internal clearances but whatever works best. I also built a special tool using parts from the Transgo tool to improve it for spreading the pulleys for belt removal/install. Definitely gotta have some respect for the large variator spring though as it can easily kill a person if you don't have your thinking cap on when installing/removing. Guys talk about spring compressors for suspensions being dangerous but the CVT pulley spring is the size of suspension spring and will take a person's head off. WIT also use a small Arbor press to speed things up and it seems to help but I used a 12 ton hydraulic press. I also purchased the large TJ-1 gear/bearing puller only on (1) bearing did I have to basically cut the cage off to remove/replace it so that tool helped immensely.

The Variator gap rings are probably the biggest pitfall/trap on the CVT builds. When I confirmed with the air check pressure test per the AAMCO manual I couldn't believe the gap rings from the Toledo JF011E master rebuild kit basically were useless and leaked air massively. You'd think they would sell parts that were tested & proven but apparently not. I then used the WIT recommendation to repurpose the stock gap rings & flipped them over on the unused side and cleaned them up good. Little bit under size from the wear, maybe 1.8mm thick vs. 2.00 mm thick new but they will probably go another 100,000 miles either way. I actually did finally find the OE double lap joint variator teflon seals from Cobra Transmission and so if I do another I'll supplement the typical rebuild kit with those. But flipping and reusing the stock rings I learned from WIT Transmission & it worked great with perfect seal. At some point I'll build a Master CVT rebuild kit from the various Nissan/Aftermarket kits as I've now substituted so much from individual suppliers that I have my own preferences.

The Transgo oil pump relief control valve is interesting. I initially installed it and it looked good though I made the mistake of loctiting the steel sleeve in place which I corrected later. A few guys had issues with pump cavitation and noise running that Transgo upgrade. I then bought a completely brand new OE vane oil pump and upgraded to the Sonnax oil pump relief valve as it's OE design but using a hard anodize coating instead of the standard factory anodize. That Sonnax pump valve upgrade seems to have an excellent reputation. The new Jatco pumps don't even use that valve anymore and designed the oil pump inlet to not cavitate with some innovative inlet and internal chamber porting. I tried to source that pump for the JF011E but had problems finding it and decided it wasn't worth the effort for now.

Pushbelt I had to replace mine as it was totally wasted and I consider them like brake pads and disposable. Mine was worn out and stretched but still intact. When I get asked if the belts are strong or need upgrades, yes they are now strong with the latest F7 super alloy the belts don't usually snap anymore at mileage below 100,000 miles. Unless they are overheated from brake torque launches or the variator balls fail and jam the pulleys they usually don't fail. I found out the pushbelts & links/elements can anneal and lose their hardness if the CVT overheats and so a good oil/filter change and external cooler could do wonders for CVT life is my feeling. Anyway, I have the latest Bosch 901083 belt which is an update from the slightly older 901066 pushbelts. I assume the metallurgy was improved so that's another area I will report on from a durability standpoint. For the RE0F09B (JF010E) transmission they originally came with the 901063 (30mm wide x 12band, F6) version but now updated to the improved 901086 pushbelt from Hitachi. For the RE0F10B (JF011E) CVT Bosch pushelt I paid about $680 from WIT Transmission which is outrageous but they are now pushing $800-$900. After some deep digging I later found that 901083 belt brand new for about $176 thru the Nissan dealership since my transmission shares many internal parts with the older Altima 2.5L application. Same goes for the Jatco OE oil pump which I intially paid $290 from WIT transmission but thru the dealership I can get it for $87 brand spanking new. The torque converter I bought from CVC converter for about $145 and it's a factory reman unit vs. $1500 brand new. I believe they used the improved carbon clutch disc over the OE tan cellulose clutch discs but I can't confirm without purchasing and destroying one. For reference, the factory torque converter is usually trashed if the CVT fails as there is no way to get all the debri out of a converter they are mostly garbage and can quickly wreck a brand new CVT upgrade, no different than an automatic transmission rebuild.

Another point here is that I don't typically use the o-rings supplied in the master rebuild kits if they are critical. In fact if you just take a little time and look at the OE vs. aftermarket parts in the kits and make a judgement call it's really about using quality components wherever possible. I also design seals for a living and I use quality viton seals especially on the input shaft that interfaces with the torque converter input. Here you don't want an o-ring failure as it takes out the entire hydraulics and the CVT is dead basically. It sounds like you had a shop rebuild your torque converter and thats a great alternative. Sonnax and Raybestos offer heavy duty torque converter clutch disc upgrades for our CVT transmission so definitely there is room for upgrading them if you find the right shop to do it. I don't recall the Juke torque converter to be an issue and the size of the clutch disc should be good for about 312 lb-ft torque based on my engineering calculations. Either way upgrades are always a good option.

The variator guide balls are also a debateable topic. They are made of cobalt and typically these will breakup and wreck the variator groove and destroy the transmission as you already know. Those little balls on mine were just about to shear in half but the variator groove(s) looked new still. This was mainly because I drive mostly in manual mode and not "CVT mode" so the variator aren't moving as much. If you had dimpling on the variator groove then the guide balls were probably also close to failing like mine but the guide pins should help preserve the variator. They're a major weak point though and there are many CVT that fail instantly when these little balls let go. Jatco on the JF015/016/018 I believe switched to the "guide roller pin" with a guide plate. There's some debate that the stainless/cobalt balls are still functionally better but I'll need the strength of those variator guide/slide pin upgrades. Some guys are also "tack" welding these guide pins in place as they can slide back forth in their groove and hit the snap retaining grooves. I haven't tried that myself yet but it seems logical. Little improvements like that are what evolve the design.

On the sockets I bought special large/oversize impact type sockets specifically for transmissions from Amazon and they worked great, but whatever works having dedicated impact sockets to drive the nuts is a huge help. I didn't have torque specs for those big nuts but I marked the original position so I had the correct torque angle to utilize.

Yeah, no problem and glad I could help in a small way but it seemed with the ATSG manual you had a good reference to work with. From the feedback I read it seems guys actually once they get used to rebuilding these CVT find them actually pretty simple compared to rebuilding the typical automatic transmission which has way more moving parts. I think it requires a few builds and the tips/tricks do help otherwise it's a pretty simple build in my opinion.

Always a good discussion and hopefully you can share any knowledge would be beneficial to everyone here.

 

[chidog]

I wasn't intimidated by those variator springs, one of them I could almost compress by hand to the proper location down to the cylinder entry point I'd do that to start the nut. They are what makes the install difficult, if there was more length to the bore and more area length on the shaft to guide those pistons there would be no problems. The sockets I used were also impact sunex I think.
And the torque converter place said they use a carbon fiber disk. Their weld looked way better than the factory weld. O rings? I used a transtar kit in the past I have used them and never had problems with any seals or orings, hope the lockup oring stays in good shape. I asked what the TC place used for lube when assembling the TC they said trans assembly gel, I was okay with that since I also used two different types of trans assy gel, the thick green stuff for valve body to case seals and such it holds things nicely, used the lighter red stuff for seals, bushings and other such stuff. Personally I would never use something like WD-40 I worry about compatibility with the trans fluid. The kit had all the orings for the shift solenoids and the screens for inside the valve body, since all my parts sat for many many months I forgot how on small longish screen fit in the separator plate and ruined the new one so I had to clean the old one. One thing I did on this per the manual was seals were installed with trans fluid on their OD into the case, and even the transfer case said to do the same with the gear oil, it sure made them go in nicely. I have never done that before. They are rubber clad or what ever the material is, you wouldn't want to do that on a painted or steel clad seal. I had the car for almost a year, the parts waiting issue helped that, I even reordered a few orings / seal kits for ones I messed up like the piston seals that I didn't know wasn't going to work good. I agree with you that these are simpler in design way less parts than a 10 speed step transmission, as long as you don't count all the pieces of the push belt.
Step transmissions have way more clutches, way more gear sets, I guess we can see why the car manufactures are so into these CVT's, well that is until something goes wrong and they have to warranty it. I bet if they would listen to people like you and I, and others too, we could help make these transmissions a better product.

I'd like to ask you a sort of a different transmission topic question. I have done many different automatic type transmission overhauls in the past, even some large bulldozer ones.
I hate the lip seal type seals used in some of the clutch packs and servos in some brands of transmissions, they can be so difficult to install in the bores, (again bad design for the entry).
I have seen O rings used instead and the square D ring like on those variators. I would like to know why they think they need to use the lip seals? The bulldozer transmissions used a teflon D ring seal.
If instead of using a 45 degree entry chamfer into the bores, and use a steeper angle with a longer surface with a nice polished surface then there would be less trouble with the lip seals.

 

[pboglio]

For sure the whole CVT push is a cost thing. Technically they are superior to any transmission but in reality they have their issues which is what this thread is all about.

Yes, rubber coated lip seals on the transmission need an outer coating of oil or they get torn up pretty good on the install so I can confirm that's the correct way to do it. They are in the pocket bore pretty deep and aren't going anywhere. When I put the crankshaft main seal on the engine I ended up coating it with silicon sealant because of the trouble I had popping that thing in where it wouldn't stay right. I didn't have a good vibe about that thing staying in place long term. Whatever works I suppose.

The WD40 I use on the variator upper press fit and bearing to reduce chance of galling, very light coating has no ill effect and wiped down afterwards. The inside of my CVT was surgically clean otherwise. I now use a Vapor Hone glass bead machine & ultrasonic cleaner but at the time I didn't have them available. Yep, I used the Sunnex brand sockets and they worked out great. I used a mix of the Red and Green trans assembly gel mostly on the torrington bearings that I had to stick in place. I believe where it's critical is on the Variator teflon gap rings to keep from clipping them when assembled/pressed into place. That is a bad day if that happens and I used liberal amount on the lap joint and around the edges. I used the CVT fluid to lubricate as much as possible because that is what it'll end up running anyway. Some guys like to pack the bearings with the red gel as well.

If you are talking about the clutch piston seals? I could see either o-ring or lip seal depending on the application and system pressures my reverse piston used o-ring but the forward had molded lip seal. The lip seal doesn't require as tight machining tolerances where an o-ring needs a fairly round machined bore of good surface finish to work properly and survive. I've only used lip seals on low pressure application as the higher pressures start to clamp the lip tighter causing high friction drag as the pressure goes up and the wear rate also increases. They mainly are used where you have concentricity issues in the casting/machining and the lip can float around and compensate without opening up a gap in the seal which they are really good at doing. The forward clutch piston is actually an outer lip seal on the OD and an inner seal on the ID which causes headaches with tolerances as it's sealing (2) bores at once, thus the lip seal. So it all kinda depends on the design but either can be made to work well.

Teflon D-ring are pretty effective if you don't need 100% air tight seal and want low wear/drag. Sometimes you got different guys working on different parts of the design and they start doing their own thing but generally the seal designs are fairly standard and seem to work.

 

[chidog]

Bearings ? On the sealed ones I took off at least one seal to clean out the unknown old fluid, and did a light bit of the red gel and trans fluid, and resealed them. I thought about leaving off the seals since some newer transmissions don't have that. But then thought maybe a good idea to have them since the factory did it and I was concerned about any micro particles that would not easily go past that seal.
Same here with the gel on the seal lap joints.

 

[pboglio]

So the JF011E runs open bearings on the primary and secondary now but originally they were sealed. They had major problems with bearing failures so they changed to open bearing instead. The oil lube circuit feeds a pressurized oil injector to splash cool/lubricate the bearings on the JF011E. Debri does get in but I never saw any significant damage from it. These CVT do run pretty dirty no matter what you do there are chunks and metal filings everywhere so eventually it grinds everything down but the Rockwell hardness on the bearings is actually pretty high and they aren't too affected by that from what I saw. These CVT were kind of a work in progress I guess and so the factory were figuring out things as they went along. Sounds like you covered your bases with the rebuild. My strategy is to just rebuild the CVT more often if there are issues as there is really only so much you can do with what the factory provided.

I mean it sounds like the rebuild went well and your daughter's car is running good so that is amazing actually. Gotta be a great feeling to not have to buy a new car with the prices the dealerships are trying to charge these days.

 

[chidog]

She had fairly new tires on it and hated to see her lose what she bought it for and the tires etc. Yes those sealed variator bearings looked and felt real good with 130K plus miles on them, so they must get some lube. I've dealt with roller and ball bearings that run in fluid with hard metal particles they indent the running surfaces and that slowly degrades everything. Yes very hard case hardening on such bearings but they still get dented, and then it starts to chip away in time. The differential carrier bearings where not perfect under a magnifying glass, but had plenty of life left so went with them, it was the heat stressed transfer bearings I fought with.
I wonder if there were many problems in this version transmission with the sealed variator bearings?

 

[pboglio]

Yep, the transfer and differential bearings get very little active lubrication and they do show some heat stress. The ball bearings off the primary/secondary looked good but I never reuse a bearing that is pulled off the end-shaft anyway, they get tossed even if they look good.

There were problems on the older JF011E (RE0F10A) using sealed bearings, yes. On the RE0F09B I'd think it was the same problem. The newer RE0F10B came with open bearings and all the Sonnax aftermarket bearings are also open so that is something to consider for future builds.

Regarding the pushbelt, my feeling is that they cannot be reliably re-used for a rebuild but that is an opinion. The fatigue data I analyzed shows a high probability of belt failure at higher load cycles or higher mileage. In my case, the belt bands didn't fail or show any signs of cracking or overheating & mileage was 80,000 which is low but the belt elements were burned up from abuse. These "newer" F7 material belts are hugely more reliable than before as they changed to a different miraging alloy steel and tensile strengths were bumped by +10% with less chance of fatigue cracking due to reduced TiN inclusions. If the RE0F09B had the older style F6 belt then it would have been worth upgrading to the later version without question, it's printed on the belt which version they are. Driven & maintained properly I've heard of people getting 200,000 miles on a CVT but my feeling is the belts are throw away above 100,000 unless the vehicle history shows it was driven gently. Keep in mind my application is for a high performance where a typical daily driver doesn't need overkill. This is why I was searching for a cheap source of OEM/Bosch CVT push-belts and I found them actually thru the NIssan dealership with some investigative work. The typical reman units no they don't replace much beyond the "soft parts" unless it's clearly failed but my understanding is the Nissan Reman CVT are completely brand new internally with refurbed/reman outer cases.

I'm changing my driving habits, maintenance, external cooling, etc. to make the belts last longer so that is also a work in progress.

 

[chidog]

The only place I saw the proper belt new was on ebay, and didn't want to trust that nor spend more $ (I think it was 700), There were plenty of "refurbished" or rebuilt belts I found, what ever that means, many used ones too. I need to figure out what all this project ended up costing.

 

[pboglio]

I used WIT transmission. Those are the only company I would use as they are imported from the Netherlands (https://www.cvtpushbelt.com/about-us/) as a Bosch dealer. Anything else on Ebay in terms of a pushbelt I wouldn't touch especially if the price is low but doesn't mean it's not original just the risk is way too high was my feeling. I haven't looked at the Nissan dealership for your CVT but I might just check. Mine I found the OEM belts for $176 thru Nissan vs. $800 from WIT. The used ones obviously you wouldn't want, kinda funny someone would sell a used belt but they do.

Just checked, no go with the Nissan dealership. WIT has the belts for something like $1076.....so that's pretty crazy. That $800 ebay price is looking pretty good. If the stock belt looks good I'd just run that but it sound like you already built the trans. You might try getting price quote from that Netherland location and see what they charge, gonna be cheaper for sure. Yours for the Maxima is the CH063 but it's probably whatever is the newest version from Bosch. Mine was the CH066 (901066) but in fact it was superceded by the newer 901083.

 

[pboglio]

Upcoming CVT mods in the next few weeks...continued.