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This is my first post on this site. This thread is my whole reason for joining. No where else on the net have I found anything like this, on the topic of Nissan CVT's.
I am working on my daughters 2004 Murano, CVT and I suppose I should just start a thread on that. I just wanted to make sure pboglio would see it. You have done such a great job on this thread. I hope my memory of things I have read here and on other threads you posted in, is correct.
I have a few questions.
1 You said you used Loctite 518, did you use the primer?
2 Why 518 and not 515? The WIT video on youtube mentions 515, so I was going to use that.
3 How are you pressing the variators back together? Do you have one of the ratcheting arbor presses?

When I read about the drop in flow control valve I wanted to mention the buzz problem, with using it on the newer series transmission, but then I see you figured that out, I guess they are supposed to work better on the older version I'm working on. I'm new to the CVT's this is my first go at it. It is by far the worse vehicle and transmission ever to work on, I'll explain in my own thread. I have been researching these transmissions like crazy for the last few months, you have found and created a wealth of information on them. I sure agree about the factory design mistakes you mention.
 

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Thank you for the reply. I looked at those datasheets awhile back, I guess the main thing that swayed my decision to 515 was that it is approved by Lycoming aircraft engine manufacture as a crankcase assembly sealant. There must be a reason they didn't do the same for 518, I don't know. From what you say 518 sounds like the way to go, I already got 515 so will just use it if I get to that point lol.
Its been a battle. The "This Is Your Transmission" guy on youtube did an experiment with the drop in flow control valve in the version transmission I think you have and ended up with that buzz, he had also had done one in the REOF09A, the one I am working on and said it worked fine with no problems, I already got it cheap. The oil pump in the REOF09A does not have a chain drive and is more like the setup in most of the older style automatic transmissions maybe makes a difference? The "press" my problem is not having a good stable pressing set up etc., good old harbor freight, and so far made two mistakes pressing variators and had to fix the mess up, its caused by an unsquare condition at the final point of contact with the small hub and yes cocked the piston not good. I am using the Transtar kit, I have used them in the past, this one is the best I have seen, it even had the steel dowel pins along with the steel balls so you can choose which you wish to use in the variators. I had to use 320 emery and small lathe to sand them as they were right at 6mm and would fit too tight in the grooves, I was afraid if I forced them in then I may not get it apart again. The old balls mic'ed under 6mm, I don't have the numbers here now, I matched that diameter on the new pins and they fit perfect.

If I remember you changed the taper rollers and races in the case? How did you establish the preload? I also have the ATSG manual (I'd like to have the AAMCO one too?) for the JFO11E, on page 66 step #10, that is one of those just wow deals. As a retired machinist, aero space and other industries, as well as heavy industrial engines, and equipment mechanics, that is no way to attempt to check that dimension, they would get way closer using the top of the bar, and calipers are not the tool to use. So that is a heads up to anyone needing to take those measurements. Also this is an area where at least extra press in the case races are needed and of course dimensions checked for matching the axial length, as one of the races needs the OD reduced to easy slip in and out to establish the correct shim, because you sure don't want to think you have the correct shim and then press in a new race and then find out it has to be removed to correct the problem. So what should I do start another thread or add more to this one. I will likely have many more questions for you as well.
I'm glad you covered the surface finish of the variator pulley faces, I had one small area that had a bit of deposit on it and sanded it with I think 800 and then kinda lightly using 2000 grit emery before I found your post.
It looks like this CVT surface finish deal could take up a book? I'll add more on that later. I so fully agree with a post you made about "Rebuilt CVTs", the main thing no one thinks about is any big rebuilder of any device, will have many unskilled people doing some of the tasks, one outfit in this state is always advertising for help, the pay is lower than a hamburger flipper, and like mentioned many questionable parts are reused.
 

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Excellent idea about the stack length before disassembly, I didn't do that. But I am not replacing any of the variator support bearings they check okay, I'm not doing a top quality rebuild like you are, the main problem with this was P0868 code and yes the flow control valve is worn about .007 in the one area. Again with the stack length, something I really like on this 09 are the c washers that help hold the press fit of the variator pistons, so the only other stack issue on the primary is the bearing and retainer plate, and on the secondary is the park gear and transfer gear. Your mention of reusing the piston seals is what helped a bunch, since I did get the primary together finally, after that previously mentioned piston fiasco, with the Transtar kit seal, like you say mine leaked like crazy, but I did use some of the thick assembly goo to lube and hold it. Using a heat gun to heat the assy a bit helped the seal but it still had a leak. So when I attempted the secondary I used your advice and cleaned the old seal ring that has a very nice angled lap joint, used brake clean, then looked at it under a magnifying glass, I saw lots of very small metal particles imbedded in it. So I used some 800 and very lightly did that on the surface it did an okay job of removing most of the particles. I will end up doing the same on the primary. And I will only use transmission fluid to do the install, its best to only use either the fluid that will be in the transmission, or petroleum jelly (Vaseline), or transmission assembly jell.

Surface finish ? I'll try to find some of the other info I found and see what we can figure it out.

Does this match with what you where talking about in your thread about surface finish?


And what about this?


(Have to scroll down for this.)

Within the above five constraints, it was found that for achieving a high friction in the said frictional contact at the desired durability of the transmission, the following surface roughness specification applies to the running surface:

0.01 micron < Ra < 1 .0 micron,

■ Rsk < 0 micron,

with Ra and Rsk being defined in the (ISO) standard manner.
 

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I was just referencing the .01 micron in that patent?

"running surfaces for dynamic seals" so are you talking about the finish in the drum for the seals or for pulley faces?

Here is something else I found about abrasive grit etc.
You will need to scroll down to see the posting of the rest of this.
"For example: A 3 micron particle size would work out to 0.0001181 in inches. The reciprocal is 8,467, or about 8500 grit. "

You mentioned .23 micron, I guess I don't understand it too well.
 

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"The stock variator isn't that smooth, it's not even shiny if you remove the CVT oil from the surface." These ones are and can see reflection of sorts, in them as removed, and cleaned many times finally with brake clean so no oil. I looked with a mag glass and it is like a very fine matte finish, it is a very strange finish, like a not real fine grinding wheel yet a fairly fine finish. I need to compare to other ground items I have !. Yeah you are convincing me to really check out the finish on that primary pulley that I cleaned up.
I found this website, shows a resurfacing operation.

Are you saying you need less coefficient of friction then? Or more?
"Many have tried, but .09-.10 on standard CVT oil is about the practical limit."

Could there be a manufactured finish difference of my 09 vs yours? When I first got this apart I was (1) very surprised at how shiny the pulleys were and (2) what really good shape they and the belt were in with the 130k miles on it. At least it was babied when it did its slipping etc.
I just wish yours had some miles on it to know how well your pulley finish works out. Is that trans supposed to use NS-3? I think NS-3 is a lower viscosity than NS-2, I am using idemitsu type N for assembly and final fill.
 

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Yeah the last pics, look way rougher than mine. Your pulleys were a real mess, you worked wonders on those, they look way better than before. Is the C of friction given with the fluid on them or dry?
I don't notice the swirling effect like I thought I remember in some previous photos of your sanding job. I tried to photo mine but just didn't look good, are you using a phone? I'll try some other time.
The variator pulleys are sure a slippery slope, and unlike a step transmission these things are in constant slip so to say, even if the pulleys were not variating there is the action of feeding in and out of the pulleys that are of course pinching the ____ out of that belt. Quick calcs about 9.5 tons or so?
 

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The newer series transmissions like yours all the variator support bearings are open. This one the bearings on the primary are sealed? Some how they lube a small amount I suppose, do you think it is a good idea to leave the seals off? The reason I think they decided to used sealed bearings is the primary sits low in the case and would have a chance for more debris to enter them? I am removing the seals to clean the bearings, of course only one on the input side since I would likely ruin that bearing trying to remove it.
 

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Top photo shows primary left and secondary right side. And the photos show more roughness than the mag glass does.
Second pic is primary
Third pic is the primary I used the 2000 on lightly
last is the secondary looks factory new at around 130K ish miles.

The secondary surface looks rough in the picture, it is not that rough with naked eye nor with a magnifying glass. Some how the photo contrasts it and enhances the texture.
I will leave the secondary alone, how should I sand the primary? It looks like it was slipping a bunch. Also my old fluid has a blue or purple effect on paper towels? Is that NS-3 that someone added? I had added a tiny amount of Vaseline into the one primary sealed bearing with CVTF, now its apart again to change the piston seal. Oh just got my seals shipped, from Transtar, now I'm lost, these are updated and interlock way better at the ends that butt together, I wonder why these type were not in the kit? I'm still thinking of just using the old seals???
I really checked out my press, that is about 95% of my pressing problem it is so loose and unstable. These pistons (both with springs) need a very stable and square press to help locate them squarely in the drum.
 

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The seal rings, I will just have the joint with the wider ear towards the outside, my thinking is that is slightly better for holding the pressure. The press I'm very careful but for some reason at the very end things distort and mess things up. Everything, every surface on the variator is covered in CVTF (to stop rust) when I go to press the piston, so plenty of lube. I know supposed to be NS-2, what fluid is purple or blue in color? I will not use 2000 grit now. I'm thinking about using gray scotch bright for the drums. The guy on youtube that does step transmissions says he uses scotch bright on any place seal rings contact? Not sure what kind of finish that leaves. I found a person on an other site that owns a transmission shop he doesn't do cvt's now but said they did some in the past, and sanded the pulleys on a lathe. I asked what grit and waiting for a reply.

A bit off this topic.
I think you mentioned it, I studied the guide balls and grooves real well when I first took the trans apart, and with the right light could see the very slight indentations in the grooves.
I think this is the cause of the balls breaking up, sooner or later those dents get deeper, and act like rut to keep the ball from moving especially under a continuous torque loading, something has to give so the balls chip and become not so nice round balls, then the destruction continues. Personally I would never use the steel balls the loading is an infinite point of contact around the groove that is if it is a perfect size match, ball to groove.
 

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So on yours did you use the 400 grit and just sand in the rotating direction? I know NS-2 is green, what would the purpleish or blueish be? What color is amsoil?
There was just that very small amount of belt material towards the center, I think I got most of it. You scared me as far as the 2000 grit, but I suppose it just plateau ed it.
Did you ever call a shop and ask what grit they used to sand them?
 

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Failure was low pressure, intermittent, sometimes it was somewhat ok and sometimes not. Worn flow control valve, and who knows yet with the valve body. Trans will have to be together first before attacking the valve body, bench space you know. Also only 3/4 a dixy cup of oil was in the transfercase, so another project. I also suspect input bushing to primary variator bushing since it was .007 over, it supports the shaft and would allow movement for the seal rings? So far other bushings look okay. I was not going through the weeks worth of work to remove the trans and not check everything. The biggest battle on the remove was the insanely super tight fasteners and rusted exhaust fasteners in impossible to get to places, saying nothing about the myriad of things to remove to accomplish the task, oh and can't forget the wire connectors. I did it without draining the coolant as well. Not looking forward to the install.
She got prices from $4000. plus to $6000. to fix the car. Murano's are a super difficult to remove the transmission in vehicle, I got a few prices from $2000. to $2400. to just remove and reinstall the trans.

One other thing to note, something else that could have been an issue, under the battery tray the ground cable attach to the frame etc was badly corroded internally on the wire inside the crimp for the eye the bolt goes through. Always check for good grounds.


Here are a few things I found last night mentioning sanding the pulleys.

****
mentions 320 to sand pulleys
****
mentions scotchbright
at 12:03
 

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Oh just got my seals shipped, from Transtar, now I'm lost, these are updated and interlock way better at the ends that butt together, I wonder why these type were not in the kit? I'm still thinking of just using the old seals???
I hadn't removed them from the package yet, so I really jumped the line on this one. They are the exact same seals that were in the kit. The thick ones that my pistons need have the simple step joint, the thinner rings are the good ones, I don't understand why they did not do the same joint on the thicker rings?

The top picture is the factory Jatco ring from the transmission, the thick cross section of the lap joint. The number 2 from top is the same ring, the thin cross section of the lap joint. The number 3 from top is the Transtar kit thick ring lap joint. The number 4 from top is the Transtar kit thin ring lap joint, I wish they would have done that on the thick ring. The thick ring is what I needed, it leaked bad enough to not use it.
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Yes you are correct, leak bad. The OEM leaks some air but not like #3 did. 400 to 800 psi hydraulic pressure should force the OEM to seal just fine. What is wrong with the manufacture of these after market seal rings just making the single overlap for the large thickness ring? They should know its no good? (It is obvious they know how to make them correct) And they are charging a huge amount for the seal ring kit for this trans, and including the 2 worthless rings that I need, with it.
 

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I have dealt with the square or so called D ring seals in the past in the steering clutch systems. They leak air some what, but they worked and held the fluid pressure just fine. I don't remember them even having a lap joint, I think they just butted like an engine piston ring. 25 plus years ago so memory?
 

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Finally got the correct size rubber tip to check the variator piston seals, I added some fluid to them. Both now seal real good. What did you do to tighten the nuts ? I would like to finger or close to finger tight and mark it then turn it with the impact wrench. How much? There is no good way to hold these with out some fancy fixture. I saw mention of 185 ft lbs, so from finger tight how much to turn to get that?
I know variables ! It would be a difficult thing to measure stretch on.
 

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The one on the primary does not have the lock flange or hub integral with the nut like the secondary on mine. So you are saying it is 15 to 30 degrees after contacting the surface to the tight position?
It was the plan to mark it, but I forgot. The secondary has the mark where it was dimpled into the slot, to lock it, so that is the easy one.
Thank you for the help
 

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Did you use any loctite on yours? No one seems to recommend it on the various videos. Your tightening idea sounds good. I also thought of a 150 ft lb torque stick and doing the angle turn like you mention.
It looks like the primary nut thread is 30mm x 1mm, pretty fine thread, and looking at various charts that don't have it, I think it was for 24mm some torques into the 400 to 500 ft lb range and higher.
My air is 150 psi, used harbor freight 1/2 inch impact earth quake to loosen the nuts on the lowest setting and it didn't take too many hits to loosen them.
 

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Okay installed the nut on the secondary first, since it has the dimple to punch into the key slot on the shaft. Finger tight, one quick impact trigger pull, with the impact set at the lowest setting (there are 3 settings) that made the nut tighten past the slot by a small amount, that did not seem very tight so I held longer the next time and then some extra blips to the point the impact pretty much limited out, that turned the nut about 10 degrees past the key slot that it was originally located at. So on the primary I did a quick clean and blue permatex medium thread lock small amount in the nut threads and did about the same as I did with the secondary. I'm calling it good. Huge thanks for your input, I probably didn't need the thread lock but the peace of mind is nice too. A wild guess of applied torque 250 to 300 ft lbs if that.
 
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