[chino]

howdy yall, chino here

i have a full bolt on, stock turbo juke making 237whp on 21psi, what would be the best turbo to swap to for power to cost ratio?

ive been hearing a lot about the blouche turbo set up but do j really want to spend $4100 for 60hp?

not dissing anyone who does, obviously, im just asking for turbo options

 

[turbo noob]

Mamba 21t will get you there.

 

[JukeAholic]

I have yet to see a Mamba 21t get 300 whp.

 

[JukeAholic]

howdy yall, chino here

i have a full bolt on, stock turbo juke making 237whp on 21psi, what would be the best turbo to swap to for power to cost ratio?

ive been hearing a lot about the blouche turbo set up but do j really want to spend $4100 for 60hp?

not dissing anyone who does, obviously, im just asking for turbo options

It will be expensive, and you'll need a new downpipe, but its a whole different experience driving a big turbo car. But again, it will cost more than $4,100 (unless someone sells you a used kit), so it depends how much $$$ you want/can/are willing to spend.

 

[Macgyver]

If you are at 21psi and only 237whp then a Mamba 21t probably will not get you there. A 21T is a good upgrade path for simplicity but a big turbo is the best way to get there. Remember that above 300whp the oem clutch starts to get suspect.

If you dont have the money for a Big turbo, Then the 21T is the way to go. It will certainly get you more power over the OEM turbo.

 

[pboglio]

2J ran their Juke 6spd 19T to ~315 w.h.p. actually. Not a fan of the 21TK as it's overkill for the turbine and probably hurts more than it helps but that is a guess.

Okay, I'll take a stab at this one. The Blouche 16g is the better turbo, it actually costs $1195 depending on the turbine housing selection. Good, now we have a custom bellmouth downpipe required which is a major pain to fabricate, but still it's a downpipe. Average WRX bellmouth downpipes are running $550 but ebay would be tempting to save more, so it can be done reasonably cost effectively. I'd buy one cheap/used and chop it up merging it to a custom 3" Juke downpipe......done. Again, you are essentially buying a Subaru turbo so you need some subaru parts. Anyway, the Subaru turbine/manifold flange is 3-bolt and needs a 4-bolt adapter custom cut/welded for the stock Juke manifold. Water jet or laser cut some flanges and tube and with some welding these adapters aren't rocket science and I see these things all over the web for next to nothing in various configurations......because Jukes aren't the first to run into this problem. Then oil/water feed lines and the usual stuff. Charge pipes maybe $100 and some fabbed up compressor inlet pipe another $100. I'm almost motivated now with the engine out of the car to just do it myself to prove a point, see how much it actually costs. Subaru WRX STi HTA68 turbo sitting right in front of me that would put a 16g to shame and spool just as quick so maybe it belongs on the Juke now I guess.

You could to talk with a professional welder or auto fabricator to do this cost effectively. Possibly get quotes from other shop fabricators. I personally would use a Subaru shop as this would be cake for them and even easier to work on than a damn flat-4.

Thus, the problem isn't the turbo but simply not getting some competitive quotes for the installation. Tuning can be done anywhere but factor that another $500 or so.

I kind of think you'd probably just get bored with a 19T or 21TK so start looking outside the Juke community for shops that are willing to do custom fab work.

 

[Macgyver]

Anytime someone asks in ANY forum or social media outlet. "What is the Best" Oil or Turbo or Tire Etc Etc. Heated discussions result. A lot is subjective. A lot isnt. There are always Facts to take into account. So lets try to keep this civil per say.

OEM turbo housings perform well and are an easy upgrade path. 19T. 21T. Turbo Bay Stage 2 and 3.

If you really want to go fast. Get a bigger housing turbo. It aint even close. Those torquey OEM housings Feel fast but they fool you. Dont get me wrong. My 285whp 255wtq 19T 12 blade Mamba Drove awesome. It was a blast. But with all that torque down low. It was uncontrollable. Serious Torque steer and tire slip. It was viscous but fun at the same time.

Now on to my rant.

First off. 2J is the only one, "In The World", That can tune like this. 2Js numbers are absurd. For all of you reading this. We have been down this discussion path before.

Second, I for one have seen how easy it is to fudge a dyno. 2J is the only one to get 300wtq AND 300whp on a Juke with a 19T in the WORLD. 2Js dyno Reads insanely high compared to other dynos. So how does 2J get approx 50 more WTQ and/or approx 50 more WHP than everyone else on a 19T In The World ? We prolly shall never know but lets look at the following:

I have used Two different tuners. My one tuner is a complete Expert. And I mean Complete. Drunkmann Tuning. He said its impossible to get that much MORE out of this platform on the 19T like 2J does. So from 285whp and 255wtq at 21psi to 310whp and 317wtq (Boostane). My numbers are high compared to what others have gotton with their tuners. So please Remember. All Drunkmann does is tune. Thats ALL he does. There is No secret sauce here folks

3rd, this sorta goes with #2. As far as the Dyno. When you set the ambient air temp. You set the dyno before you do a dyno run. (Those without automated weather stations). That totally effects the conversion factor of the dyno. If its 70deg in the shop and you set it to 80deg. BAM. Instant higher HP reading. Plus you can change the numbers after the fact. Want a Juke that does 500WHP. Easy. Set the temp to 120deg.

Matt and I were meticulous with the temp. Whatever the Juke dashboard was reading is what we set the conversion factor for. It was just easier to keep it consistent this way.

Anyway. Enough of that.

Mac

Oh here is my car at crank HP. Ask us how we got that.......

 

[pboglio]

Well, the OP asked for some options.

Below I'm showing the Subaru FP 68HTA 7cm2 housing mounted directly over the Juke exhaust manifold. That turbo I think is rated for 510 h.p. (51 lb-min) but the 7cm^2 would probably hold it back some on the WRX/STi, that one I should have ordered the 8cm^2 but I was wanting the quicker spool. This would handily out muscle a 16g but again the turbine wheel/housing is holding back the compressor. Spool on the 2.5L engine was amazing, much better than the stock IHI VF39. Note the 3-bolt holes overhang with the 4 stud/bolt Juke pattern actually clearing the turbine. It wouldn't take anything but a machined billet adapter with thru studs to mate as the turbine inlet ports are nearly identical in size and everything kind of lines up nicely. If that worked it would park the turbo low to avoid clearance issues on the firewall. I might 3d-print the adapter and test fit on my engine to see how it looks for kicks. I'm kind thinking of building the jig now for the downpipe with the engine out then I can always fab it up later for future.

But yeah I could be convinced a Blouche is the much better option. The $4,100 is hard to say. I'd have to cost out the turbo, downpipe, welding gas, charge pipes, tuning cost, etc. etc. I know the Blouche 16g costs $1195 and Subaru downpipes are $550, tune is another $500. So we are talking $2200 already without any other things plus labor/profit. Probably when it's all said and done someone is easily going to be in the +$3,000 - $3,500 range no matter what so it all depends on what you want.

 

[FastReligion]

I have to interject here.

First off: What MAC said. Also, can everyone please stop assuming everyone has the time and skills to do stuff like this. Or even know where to start to get it made locally. Most people don't know what a TIG welder is, or what the difference between sc10 and sc40 pipe is.

Second: My prices on my website assume your starting bone stock. It includes EVERYTHING; cat-back, intercooler, dv upgrade, intake, second cat upgrade, downpipe with cat, turbocharger, tune, uprev license, INSTALLATION, custom turbo adapter, custom intake adapter, Custom cross-over pipe, oil feed/drain lines, custom coolant lines, fluids. Every part you already have brings that cost down significantly, aside from the parts that directly bolt to the turbocharger.

Third: Here is a rotated subaru turbo kit: link here,~$5000 shipped for what you see and that doesnt cover another $4-5k in parts you will need to take full advantage of it (maxing out the stock engine that is), and the $2-3k to install and tune it. I work very closely with Perry Tuned in Rhode Island. Arguably one of the best Subaru tuners/builders in the country. He laughs every time I show him a thread or email saying my turbo kits are expensive. Go look at a turbo upgrade for a cobalt ss, or a srt-4, or a new gen civic. Not a replacement turbo, AN UPGRADE. A true big turbo. Take that price and call a shop for an estimate to have it installed and tuned. Please, share those numbers when you do. If you want a laugh, go look at the big turbo kits for an RB26. Dumb simpe to make. Hell, I made one for my R32 to save a few bucks. I can tell you it would have been a hell of a lot faster to have just paid for the kit that costs $7000 that only came with the stuff that touched the turbo.

Fourth: Time. Time. Time. I have spent YEARS getting these turbo systems exactly where they are today. Knowing exactly what does and does not work. Trying several different turbo options. Your paying for my time and experience. Sure, a cross-over pipe and intake are a few hundred bucks in material. Okay. What about the $100+ an hour a fab shop is going to charge you to make the pipes fit? @Macgyver had me install a big turbo system in his car in ONE DAY. In that day I also took 2 hours to fabricate him some custom intake and cross-over pipes. They fit perfect. I can do it so fast BECAUSE I have done it so many times. So again, please call up a local fab shop and get a price on having this stuff made. It takes me a full work day to make an adapter and downpipe. Call it 8 hours. At $100 an hour, that's $800, and that's just the hot side. It would take twice as long to do that ON a car. I have special jigs for every part I need to make. Your paying for THAT. A perfect fitment EVERYTIME. You mention just having flanges cut out. Okay. What about the CAD needed to get it perfect, and the cost of a 5/8-3/4" plate of steel, and the cut time for the flanges. I can tell you right now, if you pay for that process start to finish for ONE flange, your looking north of $200. I know because I had that done years ago before I learned to do CAD myself and purchased the machinery to cut it all myself. Your paying for THAT.

Time. Now lets look at install. By the book its 5.5 hours of labor to do a turbo r and r. That's $500+ (If you need me to I can send you screenshots of two different labor guides with times) If a shop is quoting this install, they are also going to add: intercooler R and R (1.2 hours), Second Cat-Pipe Removal (1.3 hours), and misc. labor for fitting hoses etc., lets call that 3 hours max. 11 hours. So that's lets say a MINIMUM of $1000 in labor, really it will be closer to $1500, most large shops are north of $120 an hour right now. Now find a tuner who would be willing to tune a custom turbo kit like that. Say you find one: $900 is the current going rate for an uprev tune right now, maybe you can find one for $600. So lets ignore all of the fabrication time, and just look at the install, tune, and cost of the turbo parts. $1000 for a BPT 16g, $1000 for the install of JUST the turbo kit with fmic, $600-900 for a tune, $400+ for a FMIC, $1000+ for a second cat-back exhaust. Thats over $3500+ right there. Without fab time. Without the week plus of down time they will have your car to make the stuff, assuming they work that fast.

Now lets include that fabrication time: Your total very quickly is past $5000 on the low end and you still don't have everything you need, nor do you know the cars going to perform because those places have never done this sort of thing before, on a juke specifically.

Time. I have customers bring me their cars and same day they come in with 180 whp, and leave north of 300. Reliably. Your paying for that experience and speed. I have had customers try to DIY a kit. 3 to be exact. Two of them blew their engines up and shipped me the cars to do it right, and one put it back to stock. I know exactly what couplers I need, I know exactly what sc40 reducer i need to go from juke to subaru turbo flanges, I know what clamps I need, I know what hoses i need, I know that I dont need to waste money on aftermarket boost controllers, I know what piping I need, I know the measurements of everything I need, I know how fast I can do it all, and I know the customer wont risk popping an engine because the boost is so damn high. Any of the mamba turbos will need significantly north of 24psi to make "good" power. I can get you to 300 on my dyno for 20. No adjustments, no scaling, the dyno reads it. Want less timing so you dont worry about getting bad fuel? I can get you there for 22 psi on a 16g. And that will be 310+ whp. With torque that doesnt fall off like its a goat following the heard off a cliff.

I had a customer, who I will not name for his privacy, who had another shop build him a 21T turbo set up. He was told he would get 300 whp. Instead he got 285 on their dyno at 28psi, and told his engine had too much blow-by to make an more. A few weeks later, the engine gave out. I FLEW HIM up to my shop to go for a ride in a few big turbo cars. He didn't even make it here from the airport before he made up his mind. No sales pitch. I had a customer pick him up for that exact reason. Genuine experience. He shipped me the car two weeks later. I had his engine rebuilt, tossed on the turbo, made 300+ whp, shipped back the car, and he couldn't believe how much better it performed. He drives it everyday without issue. Total time for the whole process, 3 weeks. Most of that time was waiting on stuff from nissan for his engine.

In conclusion: get a mamba or turbobay turbo, have it tuned, enjoy the bump in power. Hell, I have several used ones here I can sell you for cheap so you can save a few bucks. But when you want to make real power, reliably, take a 3 day trip up here, The car will be a rocket by the time you leave, for a fraction of what your going to pay to have it custom made near you.

 

[pboglio]

Not everyone wants to drop $5,000 in mods, then have to drop another $5,000 on the turbo upgrade to be capped at 300 w.h.p. on a stock block. This is more a function of not having suitable bolt-on turbo availability for the Juke, then we get into this custom turbo install crazyiness for a freaking 16g for crying out loud. A turbo by the way which I have probably never exceeded in paying $1,000 fully installed in my entire life over multiple times. That is the problem with this Juke aftermarket. If FP or Blouche had a drop-in option and cast a custom turbine housing we would not be having this conversation. This has been done to death on other platforms. Thus here we are with $4200 16g installs. Do not get pissed but that is how I see it.

Downpipes for Subarus are selling for $550. You will notice most have the cast outlet because of the labor cost to hand fabricate. You can price it anywhere you want but will people buy it? No I'm not buying an $800 downpipe for any vehicle. But that's myself. Same for $5,000 dollar ported cylinder heads or whatever that price was. I don't think so.

There is a market for everyone, relax. Some guys will drop the coin and some won't. OP will makeup his mind as he now has the full picture and can figure out his own budget.

 

[JukeAholic]

You obviously don't know what you are talking about, stick to your Evo and stop comparing it to the Juke. Having actually done and paid for 2 big turbos and 1 full bolt ons, your price is just plain wrong. Again, this only turns into an issue when people on here are being misinformed by other members. Go to any shop and price out a full 21T or 19T build, please get a quote and post it here. Im talking about a full catback, secondary pipe, downpipe, intercooler, turbo, DV, tune, install, etc. You are talking $5k easy. So again, stop making it sound like you know it all because you made a 38 page thread on your 3+year build where you dedicated 3 pages to useless heatshielding, but please argue with the guy who does this for a living and has repeatedly put out 300whp+ and 400whp+ Jukes.

 

[Bargeld]

Worst. Ad. Ever.

 

[pboglio]

You obviously don't know what you are talking about, stick to your Evo and stop comparing it to the Juke. Having actually done and paid for 2 big turbos and 1 full bolt ons, your price is just plain wrong. Again, this only turns into an issue when people on here are being misinformed by other members. Go to any shop and price out a full 21T or 19T build, please get a quote and post it here. Im talking about a full catback, secondary pipe, downpipe, intercooler, turbo, DV, tune, install, etc. You are talking $5k easy. So again, stop making it sound like you know it all because you made a 38 page thread on your 3+year build where you dedicated 3 pages to useless heatshielding, but please argue with the guy who does this for a living and has repeatedly put out 300whp+ and 400whp+ Jukes.

You don't have to visit my build thread, it's clearly not for you.
This is the 3rd time you've run your big mouth.

Peace out and enjoy.

 

[JukeAholic]

You don't have to visit my build thread, it's clearly not for you.
This is the 3rd time you've run your big mouth.

Peace out and enjoy.

This, coming from the person who literally all he does is run his mouth on every post. Don't keep saying nonsense then get mad when people blow up your spot and call you out on it.

You don't have to visit posts about big turbos when clearly, that is not for you.

 

[Macgyver]

Be Nice People !!!!

 

[Ausjuk33]

Wow. Pissing competition much?. No wonder we humans go to war over the stupidest things. We were discussing turbos for a new member. Can we all agree there are many options and they all cost money, its up to the op to decide how far n how much he spends. Once he has been given a few options.

 

[pboglio]

Be Nice People !!!!
[/QUO

Mac, sounds like good advice, no problem on my end.

 

[Macgyver]

Mac, sounds like good advice, no problem on my end.

I am not modding this cause I am part of it. It was kept clean for the most part and I appreciate that.

This stuff happens with Engine Oil. Example.......Bob The Oil Guy forum. It gets out of hand quick then the mods step in. People have their opinions based on experience(s). "I kinda go along with what I know til something better comes along". That's a famous Battle Star Admiral Adama quote right there.

I would have locked the thread right away and left a simple answer. However, People need to be aware when they ask questions like "Whats the Best Oil, Turbo, Tires". They are gonna get answers like this. There is a lot of info here that would never been posted in a basic thread.

 

[pboglio]

To add some some cost specifics, the following is essentially my current setup except with a 19T instead of the 21TK.
When I'm up and running I'll give my feedback but using my best judgement and previous experience this is how I've built/setup this turbo:

Turbo build cost:
Mamba billet 19T (6+6) Juke turbo with TD04HL machined turbine housing : $799.00
Mamba Volvo TD04HL (11 blade) turbine wheel/shaft (P/N 012-0037): $130.90
Mamba 3" Compressor Inlet adapter (K026-0036): $53.90
TurboSmart 14 psi Wastegate Actuator (P/N IWG75): $185
Turbo Assembly & Rebalance (soft bearing) (Majestic Turbo Waco): $175
Custom 3" Compressor Inlet pipe w/MAF recirc (needs to be fabricated): ~ $200
Port work (compressor housing inlet): $xxx
Port work (turbine housing inlet): $xxx
Port work (exhaust manifold runner inlet & collector/flow divider): $xxx
Shipping (various): $200
Labor cost: $TBD
Total: +$1744 (estimate)

This is what I have currently into my 19T turbo, plus a TD04 heavy duty thrust bearing kit already standard on the 21TK but extra for my 19T. This is the bare minimum I would run with that Mamba turbo. I'm stating that basically it's a flawed turbo as purchased, it's only advantage is that it's a direct bolt-on. Thus a $799 turbo ends up more like a $1744 turbo but it can be anything in-between those. Port work is nice to have but for myself it costs $0. I would not run this turbo without some type of port work but it's more of an option to maximize flow rather than critical to have.

Boost pressures normally I wouldn't push a smaller turbo like this past 22 psi on pump gas/race gas., more like 14-16 psi daily driving. The ported head and higher lift/longer duration Crower cam regrinds will probably help lower the peak boost pressure nearing redline anyway, while the midrange boost is going to have to be capped around 16-18 psi to keep the torque in-check for the CVT. In terms of engine backpressure generally lower boost is less backpressure but not always.

I have my reasons for swapping to a TD04HL (11-blade) over the Mamba 9-blade that comes with the 21TK. My belief is that the Mamba 9-blade turbine in the smaller Juke 5cm2 turbine housing is likely doing the exact opposite of reducing engine/turbine backpressure. This is because it lacks the blade count/surface area to efficiently drive the larger 19T or 21TK compressor(s) when already being flow restricted by the smaller 5cm turbine housing. Without high turbine housing mass flow rates the 9-blade turbine wheel advantage is negated and the lack of blades ends up hurting shaft torque work, requiring the WG to close more and actually increasing engine backpressure. Larger 6,7, & 8 cm2 housings would be better suited as they'll allow more mass flow thru to feed the 9-blade turbine to compensate for it's lower turbine efficiency. Several OEM vehicles are running the 19T & TD04HL (12) blade version CHRA and its a proven design combo that is very well matched when mated to a properly sized turbine housing A/R. The Juke 5cm2 turbine housing is the limiting component. I'm doing a few porting modifications to the turbine housing to open up flow to the blade-tip passage to pickup some top-end flow without negatively affecting turbine efficiency, we will see if it works.

For reference a 16g needs nothing for modifications typically. Out of the box Mitsubishi have designed them to be optimal aside from needing a higher pressure waste-gate for running higher boost levels otherwise they are a great turbo for 300-350 w.h.p. IMHO.

Aside from the 2J dyno plot and Mac's, data is limited on Juke Mamba max power potential. When I have dyno numbers I'll post them and I'll go from there.

Hope the OP get's a better idea what to expect if purchasing this type of turbo.

 

[JukeAholic]

To add some some cost specifics, the following is essentially my current setup except with a 19T instead of the 21TK.
When I'm up and running I'll give my feedback but using my best judgement and previous experience this is how I've built/setup this turbo:

Turbo build cost:
Mamba billet 19T (6+6) Juke turbo with TD04HL machined turbine housing : $799.00
Mamba Volvo TD04HL (11 blade) turbine wheel/shaft (P/N 012-0037): $130.90
Mamba 3" Compressor Inlet adapter (K026-0036): $53.90
TurboSmart 14 psi Wastegate Actuator (P/N IWG75): $185
Turbo Assembly & Rebalance (soft bearing) (Majestic Turbo Waco): $175
Custom 3" Compressor Inlet pipe w/MAF recirc (needs to be fabricated): ~ $200
Port work (compressor housing inlet): $xxx
Port work (turbine housing inlet): $xxx
Port work (exhaust manifold runner inlet & collector/flow divider): $xxx
Shipping (various): $200
Labor cost: $TBD
Total: +$1744 (estimate)

This is what I have currently into my 19T turbo, plus a TD04 heavy duty thrust bearing kit already standard on the 21TK but extra for my 19T. This is the bare minimum I would run with that Mamba turbo. I'm stating that basically it's a flawed turbo as purchased, it's only advantage is that it's a direct bolt-on. Thus a $799 ends up more like a $1744 turbo but it can be anything in-between those. Port work is nice to have but for myself it costs $0. I would not run this turbo without some type of port work but it's more of an option to maximize flow rather than critical to have.

Boost pressures normally I wouldn't push a smaller turbo like this past 22 psi on pump gas/race gas., more like 14-16 psi daily driving. The ported head and higher lift/longer duration Crower cam regrinds will probably help lower the peak boost pressure nearing redline anyway, while the midrange boost is going to have to be capped around 16-18 psi to keep the torque in-check for the CVT. In terms of engine backpressure generally lower boost is less backpressure but not always.

I have my reasons for swapping to a TD04HL (11-blade) over the Mamba 9-blade that comes with the 21TK. My belief is that the Mamba 9-blade turbine in the smaller Juke 5cm2 turbine housing is likely doing the exact opposite of reducing engine/turbine backpressure. This is because it lacks the blade count/surface area to efficiently drive the larger 19T or 21TK compressor(s) when already being flow restricted by the smaller 5cm turbine housing. Without high turbine housing mass flow the 9-blade turbine wheel advantage is negated and the lack of blades ends up hurting shaft torque work, requiring the WG to close more and actually increasing engine backpressure. Larger 6,7, & 8 cm2 housings would be better suited as they'll allow more mass flow thru to feed the 9-blade turbine to compensate for it's lower turbine efficiency. Several OEM vehicles are running the 19T & TD04HL (11) blade CHRA and its a proven design combo that is very well matched when mated to a properly sized turbine housing A/R. The Juke 5cm2 turbine housing is the limiting component. I'm doing a few porting modifications to the turbine housing to open up flow to the blade-tip passage to pickup some top-end flow without affecting turbine efficiency, we will see if it works.

For reference a 16g needs nothing for modifications typically. Out of the box Mitsubishi have designed them to be optimal aside from needing a higher pressure waste-gate for running higher boost levels otherwise they are a great turbo for 300-350 w.h.p. IMHO.

Aside from the 2J dyno plot and Mac's, data is limited on Juke Mamba max power potential. When I have dyno numbers I'll post them and I'll go from there.

Hope the OP get's a better idea what to expect if purchasing this type of turbo.

You forgot the $6,000,000 of heatshielding and $40,000 of ceramic coating 😂😂