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I think about this often. Would be nice to get working and with a decent 4wd controller on the go.
 

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So you are stuck at home? Any progress? ?
 

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The transmission is a rs6f52a from a jdm Nissan X-Trail (DBA-NT31) that was powered by a mr20de. The transmission itself has the same internals as the rs6f52a we got in the US in several cars. The difference is that it uses a different differential and casing to allow use of a transfer case. The transmission in the fwd nismo rs is a rs6f52h which only differs from the fwd (a) variant in that it has a helical differential. This means you can use the shift cables, shifter, side transmission mount, and cv axles from a fwd nismo rs.

I know for certain that the front cv axles from the awd rs will not work and that the fwd rs axles will need to be used instead. What I am not sure of is if the driveshaft going from the transmission to the rear differential can be used but it's doubtful since the rear differential s the wrong ratio so one from a Nissan Murano will likely have to be used. Using the Murano diff also means different rear cv axles will need to be used.

I will be confirming all of this information as soon as I get settled in at the new house and things return back to normal.
Hi !!!

How is everything going with the house? I know what that is like and consumes a lot of time.

Hoping you are doing well, and nothing crazy has happened as we haven't heard from you in 6 months.

Obviously, I am extremely keen to find out what's going on with your project, as I hope to replicate in the future.
 
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Discussion Starter #64
Hi !!!

How is everything going with the house? I know what that is like and consumes a lot of time.

Hoping you are doing well, and nothing crazy has happened as we haven't heard from you in 6 months.

Obviously, I am extremely keen to find out what's going on with your project, as I hope to replicate in the future.
Everything with the house has been good, lots of work but good. I have been working non-stop in the office during the on going pandemic. I only recently switched to working from home, which has given me a bit more time to work on finishing up some of my other car projects. My 280z should be wrapped up in the next month and my partners engine swap for their Subaru Baja the month after that.
I haven't forgotten about this swap, I just am notoriously bad about keeping documentation up to date. In the next month I am going to try and sort out the last few details that will need to be addressed for this swap to work successfully. The things that will need to be addressed are the rear differential which will likely be sourced from a Nissan Murano, axles which will be partially sourced from a Murano as well but the outer joints will be from a Juke and the axle bar I will have to do some testing to figure out. Worst case with the axle bar I will have to go custom but I am pretty optimistic I can find something that will work.

A custom differential mount will have to be made for the Murano differential as well which isn't a huge deal for me. I likely could make a jig when I do build mine to make a few of them if anyone else does actually want to attempt this swap. This has gotten me thinking, I may try and buy a wrecked AWD Juke to do do all my test fitment on if I can find one cheap enough locally on copart. Getting my hands on a car I can leave torn apart while I figure things out would speed up this project greatly.

I will make an effort to try and not fall off the face of the earth again so no one things I've forgotten about this project or anything silly like that.
 

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Everything with the house has been good, lots of work but good.
Fantastic :) Really good to hear everything with the house is going well :) I'm mentally burnt out from all my working from home, so taking a vacation. I HIGHLY recommend you set strict schedules and a work area otherwise it will start getting to you (I might not be going back to the office until 2021 for example!). I definitely want to see pictures of your 280z when complete, they are beautiful cars. (going on memory, I think an S13 dashboard fits pretty well inside them.)

I would be interested in a diff holder if that is required. Not sure on funding yet, but I'm sure I could work it out. Nissan does however like to reuse parts, which works out really well for many other Nissan's as you may have noticed. Part swaps are often fairly easy as long as you know which parts to use from other models.

I'm curious on the rear diff though. Why would you need a different one? Am I missing something here, as at worst I'm sensing a modified axle or custom axle? (Or are you referring to a mount for the engine side transfer case?)

If for a reason it all goes sideways, lets talk :)
 

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Fantastic :) Really good to hear everything with the house is going well :) I'm mentally burnt out from all my working from home, so taking a vacation. I HIGHLY recommend you set strict schedules and a work area otherwise it will start getting to you (I might not be going back to the office until 2021 for example!). I definitely want to see pictures of your 280z when complete, they are beautiful cars. (going on memory, I think an S13 dashboard fits pretty well inside them.)

I would be interested in a diff holder if that is required. Not sure on funding yet, but I'm sure I could work it out. Nissan does however like to reuse parts, which works out really well for many other Nissan's as you may have noticed. Part swaps are often fairly easy as long as you know which parts to use from other models.

I'm curious on the rear diff though. Why would you need a different one? Am I missing something here, as at worst I'm sensing a modified axle or custom axle? (Or are you referring to a mount for the engine side transfer case?)

If for a reason it all goes sideways, lets talk :)
I work in IT so I can only really stick to a work schedule when my the systems I manage will allow it but for the most part I have been pretty good about not letting work take over my life. Ouch that's rough but at least your company cares enough to take those precautions even if they can be hard deal with sometimes. I will totally post some pics and maybe a driveway burn out video just because I can. A dash from an S13 would fit but I like the old school look and feel of the original dash so I will probably just refinish mine and flock it when I tear the car down for paint next spring.

I will let you know on pricing for the diff mount once I have a prototype I'm happy with. Nissan definitely does like to reuse parts as I have found so far with this swap and the work on my Z.

A different rear differential is required because the ratio in one from the Juke is different from the one used on the X-Trail. The ratio on the one in the Juke is 2.416 and the one in the X-Trail is 2.466, the difference is large enough that I don't it would likely cause unneeded stress on the system and could cause damage to the drivetrain itself. Does that make sense?
 

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I work in IT so I can only really stick to a work schedule when my the systems I manage will allow it but for the most part I have been pretty good about not letting work take over my life. Ouch that's rough but at least your company cares enough to take those precautions even if they can be hard deal with sometimes. I will totally post some pics and maybe a driveway burn out video just because I can. A dash from an S13 would fit but I like the old school look and feel of the original dash so I will probably just refinish mine and flock it when I tear the car down for paint next spring.

I will let you know on pricing for the diff mount once I have a prototype I'm happy with. Nissan definitely does like to reuse parts as I have found so far with this swap and the work on my Z.

A different rear differential is required because the ratio in one from the Juke is different from the one used on the X-Trail. The ratio on the one in the Juke is 2.416 and the one in the X-Trail is 2.466, the difference is large enough that I don't it would likely cause unneeded stress on the system and could cause damage to the drivetrain itself. Does that make sense?
Same, work in IT and in charge of authentication (login) systems for external/internal customers/users. Spent a lot of time this past year getting things stabilized on a rewrite of old systems, so rarely get called out of hours anymore, but there being in a legal company, our work load increased since covid and financial market work.

A flocked dash would look very nice :)

Totally get the differences in diff ratio's, honestly, I don't know why I didn't consider that. My brain must have stopped at the start of the driveshaft and forgot about the front wheels lol.
 

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Same, work in IT and in charge of authentication (login) systems for external/internal customers/users. Spent a lot of time this past year getting things stabilized on a rewrite of old systems, so rarely get called out of hours anymore, but there being in a legal company, our work load increased since covid and financial market work.

A flocked dash would look very nice :)

Totally get the differences in diff ratio's, honestly, I don't know why I didn't consider that. My brain must have stopped at the start of the driveshaft and forgot about the front wheels lol.
Nice, so you get the struggle all too well. I manage our AV software along with several medical systems, as well as being the person that does our security investigations, and for the past few months I have been managing our remote worker program which was absolute chaos. I work for a group of medical clinics so we have very busy to say the least.

Oh yeah length driveshaft may also be needed for this. as well. I may be able to make use of parts the Murano shaft but that will require some measuring first.
 

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One other thing to note is that the Murano rear differential uses a single electro-magnetic clutch pack on the input side instead of the 2 clutch packs on the output. The one from the Murano also only has an open rear differential. I have found a source for an LSD that should work in the Murano differential case and is a torsen type LSD and they can be found on eBay. I probably wont buy one initially to keep costs down but after everything is together and working I may pick one up.

 

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Glad to hear you are still doing well! I know I am certainly invested in seeing how this project pans out for when I phase out my Juke as my daily driver. This stuff is way over my head at the moment, so you can take as much time as you need and I will be here to reap the benefits, haha!
 

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That ebay seller certainly seems to know what they are doing, at least going by the text they put up on the diff.

I know that will be a long-ish journey converting a CVT RS AWD to manual, but hopefully between someone wanting to buy an RS CVT box, and other parts (paddle shifters etc), it might work out at least somewhat doable. Not sure what will happen when it comes to ECU work though, and going from CVT to Manual. Oh and yes... the daily driver fun... lol. I wish I could find a cheap beater.
 

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That ebay seller certainly seems to know what they are doing, at least going by the text they put up on the diff.

I know that will be a long-ish journey converting a CVT RS AWD to manual, but hopefully between someone wanting to buy an RS CVT box, and other parts (paddle shifters etc), it might work out at least somewhat doable. Not sure what will happen when it comes to ECU work though, and going from CVT to Manual. Oh and yes... the daily driver fun... lol. I wish I could find a cheap beater.
That's what I gather from the listing which is why I would be willing to spend the money on it. If only I could find a source for a front lsd but that may actually cause even more stress on the system so I don't want to over do it.

I believe there isn't any difference between the RS CVT and the other AWD Jukes, the only real difference is in programming but I very well could be wrong. The ECU I am not as worried about as I am with things like traction control but we will see how that goes when it gets there. The closest thing I have to a cheap beater is a Celica All-Trac and that hardly qualifies even if I did get it really cheap initially.
 

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That's what I gather from the listing which is why I would be willing to spend the money on it. If only I could find a source for a front lsd but that may actually cause even more stress on the system so I don't want to over do it.

I believe there isn't any difference between the RS CVT and the other AWD Jukes, the only real difference is in programming but I very well could be wrong. The ECU I am not as worried about as I am with things like traction control but we will see how that goes when it gets there. The closest thing I have to a cheap beater is a Celica All-Trac and that hardly qualifies even if I did get it really cheap initially.
I don't have time to read the full thread until tonight: Do you think it would be possible to run with the rear NOT hooked up FWD only (no driveshaft etc). i.e convert to FWD manual, then finish the AWD hookup later? Trying to think about minimizing down time, and if it all didn't work out with the rear, I would still have a fully independent sprung manual RS.

When I was logging a couple of years back and providing logs to pboglio (Gene), My RS AWD would always read higher than other jukes on line pressure. So either it has different programming, or is being commanded to run higher pressure (or an error obviously).
 

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From my understanding from last year, you were going to run that external differential control, not sure if that's still happening. But wasn't the problem that the Front ratio and Rear ratio are different, thus it can only really be done with a controller that'll slip the rear clutches or completely unclamps them during straight line driving? Did you find a rear differential that matches the front differential ratio? Then I'd think you solve the major problem, sorry I haven't kept up on this thread.
 

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I don't have time to read the full thread until tonight: Do you think it would be possible to run with the rear NOT hooked up FWD only (no driveshaft etc). i.e convert to FWD manual, then finish the AWD hookup later? Trying to think about minimizing down time, and if it all didn't work out with the rear, I would still have a fully independent sprung manual RS.

When I was logging a couple of years back and providing logs to pboglio (Gene), My RS AWD would always read higher than other jukes on line pressure. So either it has different programming, or is being commanded to run higher pressure (or an error obviously).
I don't see a reason it wouldn't be possible to do that but you would have a few other challenges with doing that. You would have to use a pair of rear outer CV joints to hold the rear hubs together since they are held in with a splined stub and a nut which is on the rear outer CV joint.

Yeah I remember reading that while back. It very possibly could just programming but who knows.

From my understanding from last year, you were going to run that external differential control, not sure if that's still happening. But wasn't the problem that the Front ratio and Rear ratio are different, thus it can only really be done with a controller that'll slip the rear clutches or completely unclamps them during straight line driving? Did you find a rear differential that matches the front differential ratio? Then I'd think you solve the major problem, sorry I haven't kept up on this thread.
I will still be running an external differential controller for controlling the clutch packs on the rear "differential" since that how it controls the power distribution. In the factory drivetrain on the AWD Juke is a ratio difference between the front and read of the car even on the factory system which is done that way to allow driving power to the rear wheels when in in awd torque vectoring which is similar to the system in use on the Ford Focus RS. I was able to locate a copy of the factory service manual for the X-Trail which my AWD manual transmission came from and found that the rear ratio is 2.466 and with a bit of digging I found that the Nissan Murano has the same exact rear ratio. The front ratio of the Juke is 0.404 rear ratio Juke is 2.416 and the front on the X-Trail I need to double check the reduction gearing because it reduces the gearing once in the transmission itself and again in the transfer case and the rear of the X-Trail is 2.466. But I just checked the Murano to compare it against and the front ratio on that is the same 0.404 as the Juke. So it's very possible the factory Juke rear end will actually work. To confirm this I will have to take apart my X-Trail transmission which I was going to do anyways.
 

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As long as that front ratio is the same, I'd think the computer would thinks it's the stock transmission and the rear end would operate the same, that's definitely good. The front diff is open so all the magic is the rear differential. Not sure if you have a line on a mechanical front locking diff, that'd be a killer setup.
 

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As long as that front ratio is the same, I'd think the computer would thinks it's the stock transmission and the rear end would operate the same, that's definitely good. The front diff is open so all the magic is the rear differential. Not sure if you have a line on a mechanical front locking diff, that'd be a killer setup.
The factory differential controller talks with the CVT why when I put in the manual transmission I will have to change to a standalone differential controller unless I can find a way to trick the factory differential controller. I do have a few idea for a locking from different. Since the RS FWD transmission and the X-Trail AWD transmission are the same model but different revisions it may be possible to adapt the LSD from the FWD transmission to the AWD transmission. That will really be dependent oh how the gear that goes to the transfer case attaches to the differential case itself. I believe it's bolted on to it so it's likely that may not work.
 

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Yeah, that would be slick. They typically bolt onto the output gear with their own internals...yes. The bolt pattern I looked at on the RS was 10-bolt and the CVT AWD is an 8-bolt or something like that. The other problem is the taper roller bearing which is on the LSD body itself, which the FWD typically have a smaller bearing. Honestly, I'd have to have them side-by-side to measure them up. The difference in handling would be awesome since the AWD tend to washout like an open diff FWD in the slow corners unless you are power-on to get the rear differential locking up, something most drivers can't bring themselves to do. I talked to Quaife and they wanted $50,000 to make a production run custom, though it'd be easier to machine another one to fit I'd think.
 

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From what I can tell on the service manual for the X-Trail the bolt pattern on the AWD transmission is a 10 bolt just like the RS FWD transmission which would make sense since it's just a different revision of the same transmission. With how the AWD transmission is laid out internally it almost looks like they just added a transfer case onto the front wheel drive transmission with only a few changes.The biggest change I can see is that the final gear is mounted onto the opposite face of the differential case. Yeah that's quite a bit of money, machining one or having one machined would most certainly be a cheaper approach.





 

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The CVT AWD is an 8-bolt, take a look here, that's what I was referring to:

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