[pboglio]

I know you have money into the SRI.

I've done extensive intake pressure testing using the vacuum/pressure gauge method. I know a properly sized CAI can breath and the ram pressure then eliminates any intake pipe pressure drop. Typically a good setup will show about 10" or less total loss in inches water. More than that you are not designing the CAI correctly and you will feel the restriction over an SRI even though it's sucking in massive airflow. The SRI is sucking so much air it's completely evacuated the engine compartment at WOT. This isn't real life.

.I've done enough testing on the EVO X to improve the AEM CAI significantly and I'm happy with that. Above 400 w.h.p. I'll have to duct 4" straight into the box, another project. I'm telling you the physics haven't changed. The Juke plastic intake manifold is "helping" the bad situation but an SRI isn't the best way. I will never run one again on the EVO X and I see the big top guys running an SRI.....because the CAI is too small and starts becoming a restriction.

An SRI is not the most optimal way to do it, I'm sorry.

 

[FastReligion]

Money has nothing to do with it. The only reason I made my own intakes was because Injen is on a massive backorder and wont have their parts available anytime soon, and I needed something to offer customers that bring me their vehicles. @SouthPh1lly will confirm this is why i did it, considering it is his car that was used for testing. So before you try to spin it into me trying to sell something, I have been telling people this information for years. As soon as Injen begins to offer their parts again, I will offer them for sale again.

Now you are comparing an off the shelf intake to a custom modified intake. Your data does not and will not translate to the parts that are available to the normal person. It is like comparing the flu to covid-19. They are the same general shape, but operate completely differently. I tested OFF THE SHELF parts to each other to disprove the claims made by their manufacturers. I want you to do exactly what an EVERYDAY person will do. Buy the parts available to them, bolt them on, and test to see if there is a benefit from one to the other. On this specific platform. No modifications to the parts. Then you can come and tell people that one is better than the other. Using information that does not apply to the normal person just does not prove anything in this specific case.

Also keep in mind that even injen has a warning label on their cold air intakes that they could be dangerous to the engine by means of sucking up water. You are now telling people to run an intake that puts their car, their investment, at risk. A part that at the end of the day makes almost 0 difference to how the vehicle will perform while driving on the street. We are not talking tuned cars. We are not talking race cars. We are not talking big turbo cars. We are talking about the average person, who wants to get into modifying the car they drive to work. Who will read something like what you are posting, and end up taking a huge risk by installing that part. I'm sorry. I will not point someone down an avenue that can impact how they make their money and support their family. I talk people out of certain mods every day, to prevent them from having potential issues down the road. I can provide the emails where I do this. I am literally telling people NOT to buy my parts if they are not right for them. Which circles back to you trying to make it seem like this is about me making money. This thread literally has me helping someone with a competitors part!

I am done arguing this with you. An SRI is the SAFEST way to change the intake on a JUKE/SENTRA. The off the shelf options are also completely equal in performance between the variants. The data proves it. End of story.

 

[pboglio]

Injen sell an CAI.
2J sell an CAI.
Nissan run an CAI.

Aftermarket flash tunes, boost controllers, launch control, etc. Somehow these don't affect a person's ability to get to work when something breaks? You sell these things right? OK......but somehow a CAI is going to fold a motor. More likely someone is going to overboost, lean out, crack a piston or bend a rod.

Also, if you offer an intake system that doesn't have much restriction, it cannot physically pull the water up the elevation. Mine pulls about 10" H20, literally the suction needed to lift water up 10 inches. A poorly designed setup on a high horsepower Juke could pull as high as 20-30" or nearly 2-3ft. So if you simply size the piping bigger the vacuum is going to drop at max power. Without the high vacuum you can't physically lift the water into the engine. This is why radiator overflow tanks sit at the radiator neck elevation, vacuum limitations. Nevermind.

I leave you with this, fit's the 3" CAI intake pipes. But of course I'm not offering "practical" solutions for street cars, costs a whopping $65 or so:

Air Bypass Valves for Cool Air Intakes | AEM

AEM’s patented air bypass valve virtually eliminates the chance of hydro-lock in the event your AEM intake filter becomes submerged in water.

www.aemintakes.com

And this if you want to keep the Filter from getting soaked and causing MAF issues:

Pre Filter Wraps

Factory direct AEM replacement air filters, and cold air intake systems.

www.aemintakes.com

 

[Bargeld]

My reason for going sri vs cai was based on a few things:

1) sri is cheaper. On a daily driver over diverse hot/cold wet/dry situations, the difference between the 2 should be nominal.

2) I think of it like a straw or a garden hose, the longer the piping run, the less responsive the system becomes, as a whole. The same holds true in car audio port design. There are limits to efficiency outside of some stanadard ratios of port diameter vs length. From that basis, considering equal widths, shorter runs are better and more responsive & more efficient. I realize audio vs mechanical isn't a perfect direct comparison, but air in a tube under compression is air in a tube under compression, regardless of the application.

3) If you really want to drop temps (as already mentioned above), do it closer to the intake manifold. A better intercooler provides much more of a return than sri vs cai will. Want to go real crazy? Get a chiller that runs off refrigerant.

To me the end result was summarized early on in the thread. You are going to hear happy noises from the sri a bit more than a cai.

 

[slcjuke]

I don't really have a strong opinion for either side. But noise-wise the CAI is unnoticeable if you have a loud enough exhaust. Can baaaarely hear induction noise. However when I had my typhoon installed that thing is louder than s***

 

[SamusFarron]

I don't really have a strong opinion for either side. But noise-wise the CAI is unnoticeable if you have a loud enough exhaust. Can baaaarely hear induction noise. However when I had my typhoon installed that thing is louder than s***

When I first installed the Typhoon I went for a drive and was like "** **". It's so loud lol, it's pulling air right on the other side of the firewall right in front of you.

I'm guessing for the Juke it doesn't yield a huge difference either way, this isn't a racecar. But beyond any shadow of a doubt the CAI yields more consistent pulls in various circumstances - that's not just via butt dyno but through extensive day to day driving between them. I am happy with the Nismo intake because it smoothed out some of the unevenness the car had. It's not going to make the car feel more powerful, however it also makes it feel like there aren't dips in power at certain RPMs sometimes.

I'm still happy with the noise, it's plenty loud for me and my GFB recirc valve is set to partially vent so when I let off the gas I get a lovely induction release snap.

 

[pboglio]

An SRI is going to overwhelm an intercooler typically. I'm not talking theory, I'm talking datalogged IAT against time, boost, rolling dyno, all that stuff. I know this makes no sense, but I had the biggest baddest FMIC you can buy from the best, and the IAT were pinned to the rough and the Intercooler couldn't deal with it. There is theory, then there is B.S., then there is reality. IAT is measured in the intake tract, at the cylinder ports where it matters it's much higher still. Hot air is less dense air and the intake ports are flow restricted. A CAI makes an enormous difference everywhere, though a touch more restrictive it's worth it. The Juke intake manifold is a really smart design and helping overcome some of these limitations by minimizing heat soak. My SRI on the Juke was OK, nowhere near as bad as an SRI on an EVO or STi which just murders/destroys power. Guys will even go so far as to run the stock intake setups over aftermarket. I did on the STi because the aftermarket K&N intake kits would literally cook the motor and lean out the engine to the point of blowing them up. I prefer to be running fully optimized to get every ounce of power/torque from my setups. My daily driving setup was much more stable and enjoyable with an CAI but it was designed correctly. You can bet the cooling system will operate more efficiently as well.

 

[Macgyver]

So 2J posts dyno numbers with a Bumper removed and the air filter off. If they were on. I would assume that the numbers would be worse with them on.

All I know is the three turbo platforms I have "modded" gain Zero numbers on either a CAI or SRI via Dyno and 1/4 mile runs regardless what the Piping MFRG have stated. Juke, SHO, Edge ST. More than a few have tested to see what works and what doesnt just like the guys that run K&N air filters. They swear by them but get them on a 1/4 mile track back to back and there is no difference. Zero.

The recently released Edge ST intake claims like 20whp. LOL> Tested. Zero. Its just under hood eye candy.

FWIW the SHO and ST is a SRI with twin air filters and the 2.7tt and 3.5tt still perform on a hot drag strip and no loss of performance due to engine bay temps. Now the "Extreme" guys and I am talking with the SHO and ST record setting guys will ICE down after each run. They try to get every 1/10th of a second possible from every aspect of the build.

Until I see someone else go to a track and run back to back runs and show consistent 2/10ths less every intake mod. 1/10th is just track aberration, driver, and or DA causing the differences.

I know for one that My Juke seems faster on a SRI because you can hear it. Sorta like some people like the Light weight pulley on a CVT.

I am not calling anyone out. Its like when you have a friend come over and say. Yo. I got new speakers and they are the best. Or new cables or a new amp or a new receiver. Put them in a room with things hidden. Double blind listening test. Same volumes. Matched levels etc etc. They cannot hear the difference. Its quite humbling. I have been through it and once you do it. You cannot undo it. You just gotta like what you have after you get it home and dont worry what the other guy has that will always be better than what you have till you test it in real life.

 

[pboglio]

Mac,

Let me pose this, why do you think dyno runs are done with the hood up? Think how that might affect CAI vs. SRI dyno runs, they effectively become the same intake at that point.

Go back, dyno your car with the hood down. Do about 3-5 pulls back to back. Report back on the IAT temps. It won't look good. THAT is why the dyno runs are EXACTLY the same between a CAI and SRI. Close the hood and try again on a MOVING vehicle. I'll repeat again, a MOVING vehicle. Without forward airflow a CAI can also heat soak but it's much much slower. Use a rolling dyno to confirm your results, track times, whatever.

I called out 2J pulley for how terrible they were on my CVT, no one believed it. Forge FMIC were crap for controlling intake temps but the lack of restriction made it faster anyway, people disbelieved that but the datalogs don't lie. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, I complain about it regardless of WHO doesn't like it and that includes vendors.

I can run CAI against SRI and pickup about 1.2-1.4 lb-min turbo compressor mass airflow every time if the temps are above 65*F ambient. That is about 12-14 w.h.p. That was on my 400 w.h.p. GSX. Pressure feeding the CAI at the front of the vehicle where the pressures are highest the gains were more like 2-3 lb/min. On my 340 w.h.p. EVO X the same tricks produced similar results. I can produce in-gear acceleration timed runs and the rolling dyno results and the results are clear and obvious. There is no contest, no comparison. If I wanted to make a customer's car slower, I'd put an SRI on the car. Since I know how to tune and build a car for optimized power, I run a CAI.

A CAI extends the compressor map, making the turbo "look" bigger than it is. The extra ram air pressure then can boost the compressor further. Designed correctly a CAI can have a 2-3 lb/min advantage over a CAI. The intake pipe has to be big, like 3.5-4" for most of the length and then it can taper into the turbo compressor. Done that way and with the fresh pickup tube using a pressure duct located in a stagnation zone at the front of the vehicle to trap the pressure, the power gains are enormous actually. You can run higher ignition timing and lean the A/F further for even more power/torque. At higher speeds you can almost be off the throttle and still move the car, that's how much airflow is fed into the system. An SRI can't do that.

Splash protection is what is needed. The fender well isn't splash protected. It should be feeding over the top of the radiator, but that is where Nissan placed it. It could be done better and it's not rocket science to improve it. I've run CAI feeding from a foglight position extremely low on the ground so water ingestion is dependant on location and not so much elevation, but also the type of MAF a car runs. Wheels/tires throw up huge amounts of water in the fender well. The hotwire MAF do not tolerate ANY water touching it which is why CAI are tricky on a Juke. Switching to speed density would mostly solve that problem as any remaining water will get chopped up by the turbo compressor and used as water injection. A splash guard/shield and foglight air feed are really what is needed to make a CAI work on a Juke.

Do what you want, sell what you want. This is why I build & tune my own cars.

Here's a very detailed analysis of CAI vs. SRI on a Toyota GR Yaris. A car which stock uses CAI mostly, but then switches to SRI at full power. If after watching that you don't believe SRI are the absolute worst, then I can't convince you.

 

[SamusFarron]

Mac,

Let me pose this, why do you think dyno runs are done with the hood up? Think how that might affect CAI vs. SRI dyno runs, they effectively become the same intake at that point.

Go back, dyno your car with the hood down. Do about 3-5 pulls back to back. Report back on the IAT temps. It won't look good. THAT is why the dyno runs are EXACTLY the same between a CAI and SRI. Close the hood and try again on a MOVING vehicle. I'll repeat again, a MOVING vehicle. Without forward airflow a CAI can also heat soak but it's much much slower. Use a rolling dyno to confirm your results, track times, whatever.

I called out 2J pulley for how terrible they were on my CVT, no one believed it. Forge FMIC were crap for controlling intake temps but the lack of restriction made it faster anyway, people disbelieved that but the datalogs don't lie. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, I complain about it regardless of WHO doesn't like it and that includes vendors.

I can run CAI against SRI and pickup about 1.2-1.4 lb-min turbo compressor mass airflow every time if the temps are above 65*F ambient. That is about 12-14 w.h.p. That was on my 400 w.h.p. GSX. Pressure feeding the CAI at the front of the vehicle where the pressures are highest the gains were more like 2-3 lb/min. On my 340 w.h.p. EVO X the same tricks produced similar results. I can produce in-gear acceleration timed runs and the rolling dyno results and the results are clear and obvious. There is no contest, no comparison. If I wanted to make a customer's car slower, I'd put an SRI on the car. Since I know how to tune and build a car for optimized power, I run a CAI.

A CAI extends the compressor map, making the turbo "look" bigger than it is. The extra ram air pressure then can boost the compressor further. Designed correctly a CAI can have a 2-3 lb/min advantage over a CAI. The intake pipe has to be big, like 3.5-4" for most of the length and then it can taper into the turbo compressor. Done that way and with the fresh pickup tube using a pressure duct located in a stagnation zone at the front of the vehicle to trap the pressure, the power gains are enormous actually. You can run higher ignition timing and lean the A/F further for even more power/torque. At higher speeds you can almost be off the throttle and still move the car, that's how much airflow is fed into the system. An SRI can't do that.

Splash protection is what is needed. The fender well isn't splash protected. It should be feeding over the top of the radiator, but that is where Nissan placed it. It could be done better and it's not rocket science to improve it. I've run CAI feeding from a foglight position extremely low on the ground so water ingestion is dependant on location and not so much elevation, but also the type of MAF a car runs. Wheels/tires throw up huge amounts of water in the fender well. The hotwire MAF do not tolerate ANY water touching it which is why CAI are tricky on a Juke. Switching to speed density would mostly solve that problem as any remaining water will get chopped up by the turbo compressor and used as water injection. A splash guard/shield and foglight air feed are really what is needed to make a CAI work on a Juke.

Do what you want, sell what you want. This is why I build & tune my own cars.

Here's a very detailed analysis of CAI vs. SRI on a Toyota GR Yaris. A car which stock uses CAI mostly, but then switches to SRI at full power. If after watching that you don't believe SRI are the absolute worst, then I can't convince you.

That's kind of in line with my experience with the Typhoon. It was all well and good until I wanted to drive aggressively on a really hot day after the motor was already full hot. It just felt like power delivery was uneven, especially at lower RPMs.

I think at least for the Juke the difference is going to come in when everything is full hot and the ambient air temperature isn't helping.

On a nice cool spring or fall evening, or sitting in a shop on a dyno yeah I'm sure there is no difference. But on a really hot day when the engine bay is already scorching I'm guessing the CAI is going to be pulling in air 20-30 degrees or more cooler than an SRI will. And especially on a hot day an intercooler can only do so much.

I actually got the Nismo CAI because it was the "official" part, I was happy enough with the Typhoon, unlike the Injen junk. However now that it is installed I am happy I did. Driving around on a sweltering day the difference is very, very noticeable. Car doesn't seem to bog down and pull timing so hard anymore.

At the end of the day though I'd agree that even on a force inducted car an intake system is more for fun noises and engine candy than it is raw performance. Same with an exhaust. Even with a turbo you can't just add a bunch of power by bolting **** on. I don't think any of them add power, but I definitely feel like in certain situations the SRI, especially the Typhoon, did NOT like a really hot day in traffic.

 

[Bargeld]

Bolt-ons charge sounds and can affect the "smoothness" or delta of things, but (especially on the juke) they don't add fixed power by themselves. The tune is the biggest component for a change in power and bolt-ons simply enable more, basically adding capacity for the tune to push more power, safely.

Sri vs cai and a better intercooler are the 2 unique components that are very situational improvements that don't always add a benefit, except under certain circumstances (long run time & hot ambient air). The rest of the list of bolt-ons allow for a fixed improvement, as long as your tune takes advantage of the sum of the parts.

 

[slcjuke]

When Joe at 2J racing got my juke it had the Typhoon installed. I remember my phone ringing and seeing it was him calling me. As soon as I answer and say hello he's like "this intake is the worst thing I've ever seen" referring to the typhoon intake. That's all the assurance I needed to switch to the Cold Air and he didnt even make any money off of it I'm pretty sure he just "gave" me the one I have on my car now along with auxiliary pipe. Said he didn't wanna tune with that POS SRI. Funny enough though he's selling it on his store so lol

 

[pboglio]

A intercooler CANNOT compensate for a bad SRI. The intercooler gets overwhelmed. The intercooler isn’t magical, it’s affected by system components upstream and downstream. I’m gonna post IAT traces to prove this. On a Juke, the intake manifold thank god is plastic and it’s not as bad. I gotta dig back thru my logs but I don’t care at this point.

My STi typhoon intake was complete garbage. I went back to stock to protect the delicate MAF. That was bad intake design by K&N and SRI garbage. Sure, less restrictive but power was down huge. The A/F ratio leanout was brutal due to bad MAF sampling port design. This is another area you gotta very careful with on aftermarket SRI or CAI. Even the runner length affects engine tune.

I have zero conflict of interest here. An SRI on a Juke isn’t horrendous like it is for an STi or an EVO, that’s for certain. It’s OK, but a properly setup CAI is better. Again, it’s OK but not optimal. Run whatever makes your little heart jump for joy.

 

[NickVE]

Is there so much difference in temperature, where the cone is sitting between a Sri and a cai, there’s only 1 feet space between the two areas?

 

[SamusFarron]

Is there so much difference in temperature, where the cone is sitting between a Sri and a cai, there’s only 1 feet space between the two areas?

The difference between where the Nismo CAI sits and the Typhoon SRI sits is massive. The Typhoon is basically just a filter on the turbo and the CAI winds down and sits nestled behind the bumper on the driver's side.

 

[NickVE]

I know , but I’m talking about the injen of the 2j , you can convert the 2j from Sri to cai by adding a 1 feet pipe , is there a like 40 degree difference in temperature between those 2 spots ?

 

[SamusFarron]

I know , but I’m talking about the injen of the 2j , you can convert the 2j from Sri to cai by adding a 1 feet pipe , is there a like 40 degree difference in temperature between those 2 spots ?

I don't know I have never seen where it runs. It may not be as dramatic of a difference. I feel like K&Ns Typhoon intakes take the "short" of short ram intake a bit too seriously. It's literally a tiny pipe, just enough to fit the MAF, and then a filter. If they could have gotten away with it it would have just been a filter you stick on the turbo inlet.

I think the problem with that is it sits in like the hottest part of the engine bay. I have also seen data that shows the air it takes in is very turbulent.

I honestly enjoyed it for the most part. It sounded wicked. But on a hot day with the AC on our little 1.6 is sluggish enough until the turbo spools up.

With so many intakes available for the Juke I'm surprised 2Js offering is so popular seeing as a lot of board members had disappointing experiences with his downpipe. If I remember right they leaked or cracked or something idk I'm too busy to search.

 

[pboglio]

A 1ft difference is inside or outside the engine compartment. Measure and find out. Standing still everything around the car gets hot, moving there is a difference.

It’s hard to compare one part to another and project quality. 2J intake and intercooler pipes are flawless. Their aluminum welder is bang on. The FMIC is also extremely well designed and welded. The fmic bumper support is extremely well made.The downpipe sucks apparently, it’s well known. The pulley is flawless, still sucks for CVT performance though.

I’ll be buying the 2J CAI but heavily modifying it. Another project, another thread.

 

[SouthPh1lly]

Money has nothing to do with it. The only reason I made my own intakes was because Injen is on a massive backorder and wont have their parts available anytime soon, and I needed something to offer customers that bring me their vehicles. @SouthPh1lly will confirm this is why i did it, considering it is his car that was used for testing. So before you try to spin it into me trying to sell something, I have been telling people this information for years. As soon as Injen begins to offer their parts again, I will offer them for sale again.

Now you are comparing an off the shelf intake to a custom modified intake. Your data does not and will not translate to the parts that are available to the normal person. It is like comparing the flu to covid-19. They are the same general shape, but operate completely differently. I tested OFF THE SHELF parts to each other to disprove the claims made by their manufacturers. I want you to do exactly what an EVERYDAY person will do. Buy the parts available to them, bolt them on, and test to see if there is a benefit from one to the other. On this specific platform. No modifications to the parts. Then you can come and tell people that one is better than the other. Using information that does not apply to the normal person just does not prove anything in this specific case.

Also keep in mind that even injen has a warning label on their cold air intakes that they could be dangerous to the engine by means of sucking up water. You are now telling people to run an intake that puts their car, their investment, at risk. A part that at the end of the day makes almost 0 difference to how the vehicle will perform while driving on the street. We are not talking tuned cars. We are not talking race cars. We are not talking big turbo cars. We are talking about the average person, who wants to get into modifying the car they drive to work. Who will read something like what you are posting, and end up taking a huge risk by installing that part. I'm sorry. I will not point someone down an avenue that can impact how they make their money and support their family. I talk people out of certain mods every day, to prevent them from having potential issues down the road. I can provide the emails where I do this. I am literally telling people NOT to buy my parts if they are not right for them. Which circles back to you trying to make it seem like this is about me making money. This thread literally has me helping someone with a competitors part!

I am done arguing this with you. An SRI is the SAFEST way to change the intake on a JUKE/SENTRA. The off the shelf options are also completely equal in performance between the variants. The data proves it. End of story.

Matt is being 100% honest here. As for the build stop on by South Philly and I will show. If it’s race data you want I’m game. Just on the track.

 

[pboglio]

Honestly, glad your setup is working for you. If you are OK with your setup, I'm OK. No data you provide would change my mind. SRI are not superior unless you are doing a run on a cold motor. A properly designed CAI will crush it everytime. The colder air and higher feed pressure and SRI can't compete with.

The entire arguement is over WHY the CAI don't work well. They lack "splash" protection. No one is fording a river, I checked the ground clearance to the 2J CAI and it's massive on the Juke. It's the tires throwing water at the filter. How hard would it be to put the AEM bag over the filter element and put a polypropylene shield up around the filter to block that is like not that freaking hard. I'm good though.