Injen Short Ram CAI - Page 21
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Thread: Injen Short Ram CAI

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlgurne View Post
    Nope its all driveway action for me. I do plan on creating this as soon as it gets warm out. Its interesting that Injen warned about the turbulence. I just ordered a universal heat shield for the intake that I plan on dremeling a hole in to attach the fresh air pipe to.
    Before installing my CAI I had some good discussions with Injen's R&D about ramming air directly at the filter (As I too thought this approach would provide even better airflow) and he explained to me if your planning on channeling cooler outside air about this type of filter design it would be best to flood the surrounding area with the cooling airflow and not to direct the airflow squarely at the the filter cone which could create a turbulant airflow environment about the filter and could actually impede intake flow performance...this is primarily reason why they located the CAI filter cone in the Juke above and off to the right of the air inlet vent...

    Now this is also done taking into consideration the current cone filter design that Injen chose to use for both SRI and CAI....



    Last edited by curious; 02-18-2012 at 11:39 AM.

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  3. #202
    Senior Member jlgurne's Avatar
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    I plan on using a flex tube so I don't think the air will be very fast causing turbulence. I think it will just act as a way for cool air to get into the engine bay. I plan on using these two products. Maybe a hard pipe would be better and when it comes time I might have a pipe bent to accommodate my project.
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  4. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlgurne View Post
    I plan on using a flex tube so I don't think the air will be very fast causing turbulence. I think it will just act as a way for cool air to get into the engine bay. I plan on using these two products. Maybe a hard pipe would be better and when it comes time I might have a pipe bent to accommodate my project.
    I guess as long as your not placing it squarely off to one side the the filter cone then it looks like a very efficient way to get cooler outside air up into the SRI filter cone compartment...look forward to hearing how this works out!!!



    Last edited by curious; 02-18-2012 at 11:20 AM.

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  6. #204
    Senior Member jlgurne's Avatar
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    I think the ultimate would be to have two of the shields and attach the pipe to the front. Since the Filter doesn't take in air on the front of the filter (only on the sides) It wouldn't force air into the filter just flood the area with cold air. Although I just might want to use the K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid) principle in this before it gets way to complicated.

  7. #205
    Senior Member Use the Force JUKE's Avatar
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    Injen's intakes are not designed for ram air as is the Weapon R illustrated above. Foam filters are best for this kind of application unless the filter itself is designed much like PRM Racings' offerings, seen here:

  8. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Use the Force JUKE View Post
    Injen's intakes are not designed for ram air as is the Weapon R illustrated above. Foam filters are best for this kind of application unless the filter itself is designed much like PRM Racings' offerings, seen here:
    Yes I figured that... Are you planning on working with Weapon R to get one of their SRI's fabricated for the Juke? I looked at their website...interesting design....I see they are located in NorCal near SF...

    Here is Weapon-R's product catalog with a bit more info ..
    http://issuu.com/wrleo/docs/2010_catalog_web

    http://www.weapon-r.com/home

    Would be interesting to see some comparative performance data between their intake system design and that of a typical SRI cone filter systems..



    Last edited by curious; 02-18-2012 at 04:12 PM.

  9. #207
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    The basic principle behind Weapon R reads: The Weapon R Secret Weapon claims to use Boyle's law and the Bernoulli effect. Boyle's law states that as the velocity of a fluid increases, it's volume increases while it's pressure decreases. Bernoulli's Equation states that a moving fluid has a lower pressure than one that is still or slow moving. So through the smaller pipe we have a high velocity, high volume, low pressure air flow. When the two air flows meet at the throttle body end of the pipe, the low pressure area created in the smaller pipe has a pulling or vacuum effect, drawing the laminar flow from the outer pipe.

    I'm waiting to hear from their customer service department. I suspect if not already in the design stage, they might ask for a test mule from a local owner so I'll wait for their response before putting out the call. Here is an interesting read in the meantime for intake geeks like me. This test reveals observations I alluded to earlier, in that long-tubed CAIs produce lower intake temps at idle but the difference becomes less noticeable at speed and strangely enough, in this case, somewhat parallel results horsepower/torque-wise to the open filter short ram, which the writers found more pleasing to the ear. That's one advantage of short rams...they almost always have a more aggressive tone than long-tubes for obvious reasons (filter placement). The other benefit is better throttle response. This article raises an interesting question however. If for every 10-degrees of intake air temperature difference, one can expect a 1% power loss, where is the Injen CAI finding 6 hp on the dyno over a Juke short ram? That seems illogical because there is absolutely no way the intake air temps for a short ram are going to be 60 degrees higher than a long-tube set up.
    The Great Miata Intake Shootout - Sport Compact Car

    It's a dated article but an interesting read.
    Here's another:
    CorkSport Mazda Performance – Blog » Flow Test Results
    Last edited by Use the Force JUKE; 02-18-2012 at 09:29 PM.

  10. #208
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    Yes I did see and read earlier how Weapons-R justifies their design and I'm very familiar with the "principles" Weapon-R states as a basis to why they believe their's is a better design...I know it "sounds" compelling, but being an "engineerd" myself I always like to have theory backed by tested proof of principle...I will say I am intrigued and would love to see both Weapon-R's intake design vs a standard intake dyno'd for comparison... trust but verify! Oh and I did see where Weapons-R does claim their CAI average gains are anywhere from 8hp-16hp so honestly thats really not that much more remarkable than claims I've seen from other intake suppliers...

    I do disagree about one point and that is at cruising speeds the temperature differentials seen between the outside air "intaked" though a CAI and the heated engine bay air "intaked" through an SRI can easily exceed a 50-60 degree differential in intaked temps (considering an outside average ambient temp 60-75F)...Although I will admit that at the peak of our summers here in the desert when outside ambient temps during the day can easily exceed 115F than the benefits of a CAI are on probably par with that of an SRI!

    And it is interesting that Injen did test both their CAI and SRI on a Juke and did see ~ 6hp difference between the two....Now it would be both interesting and revealing to see a similar comparison test made between Weapon-R and Injen's ...

    Regardless...I'm sure any aftermarket intake installed (SRI, CAI, etc) over the Juke's factory stock one will show a big improvement in performance!!

    All good discussion!!!



    Last edited by curious; 02-19-2012 at 01:30 PM.

  11. #209
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    C, did you click on the link provided with the Mazda project, where they showed the difference between the COLD AIR unit and the one with the filter in the engine bay at 70mph was 12-degrees; which is what caused me to doubt there could ever be a 60-degree difference in IAT at cruising speed for our Jukes. It's just not possible with the location of the filter. I think you confused my observation. I was commenting on the difference in IAT between intakes, not the difference in IAT between outside and inside. On a related note, the short-ram filter is somewhat shielded by the battery itself and not really in a terribly bad location from the get-go. I would love to see Injen post the dyno for the short ram kit. I can't seem to locate it.

  12. #210
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    Yes I did read both links you attached...and I did understand what you were saying and still believe the intake temperature differentials seen between the two intakes types are followed through and seen at the IAT as well.....but anywho! All good discussion....

    I think the only information that Injen posted for their SRI was hp and tq gain numbers.... I'll send off an email to my contact at Injen to see if they'll release their dyno plot for the SRI in order to compare the two dyno charts and perhaps observe where on the power curve the 6hp difference between their two intakes (CAI and SRI) occur...



    Last edited by curious; 02-19-2012 at 10:40 PM.

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